Would this be of interest to researchers here...?

[Dej]

Long post, please bear with....

You may already know this, but if not:

It is possible in Goggle Earth to overlay image files on the landscape. Using the 1:20000 WWI maps on the McMasters University site that Olham54 linked to in another thread I’ve been able to copy sections and lay them semi-opaquely over modern France/Belgium/Germany etc. Lining up using forests, landmarks and modern roads (that often replace 1914 – 18 rail lines) one can see where the trench networks and other wartime features were, including airfields. It is then possible to place map pins over those airfield positions etc on the contemporary maps and record pertinent details such as which squadrons and Jastas were there and when. These map pins and overlays can be saved and made available as a download to other Google Earth users.

The raw information is mostly already known from extensive research to date but I’ve looked for a download for Google Earth that shows, e.g. all known WWI airfields and have found nothing, so I’m hoping to create one myself using the above technique.

It’s a major undertaking though so if people consider it of value maybe the maps could be shared out and several people pitch in to complete the project? 'Course if it adds no value or already done then no need to bother and please link me to the resource.

[EDIT] Note to Olham. The interactive airfield map at http://patriot.net/~townsend/WW1AirMap2/ has been updated with the Montigny Ferme information you supplied the developer... and SOH credited on the info...time to sort out the other unknowns. [/EDIT]

Illustrations below (would be a bummer if they were incorrect but shows the principle):

[Bullethead]

Schweet! I really like things like this .

[Mk2]

That is just crazy cool.

[Dej]

Just a query which would save on the above... does anyone have a list of WWI airfields with longitiude and latitude? Or could recommend a source with that information?

[Olham54]

Hey, DEJ
This looks really good! I'd be in for a project like this. How long does it take you to do just one airfield?
We could share the work perhaps. I would search the maps for drawn in airfields and send you the McMasters map link and JPEGs showing the fields; so you could build your maps from there?

Would it be possible to create a large map - for the area Douai-Arras-Cambrai for example? Or even for the whole war; were you could zoom in?

The best man around here to ask for details would be "research man" SHREDWARD. So, if we really want to do this all, we should start a new thread, and ask him for help and advice there. What do you say?

Cheers. Olham

[Dej]

Olham,

One airfield takes about half an hour, most of which is tweaking the positioning. One large map is feasible but accurate positioning would be harder, better to achieve the same end result by tiling the images. Theoretically though, as long as we have the original maps, the whole war could be done. The other issue is of course to be sure that the maps are contemporary, the ones above are from 1918.

As far as zooming in is concerned the overlay zooms in with the landscape, the only restriction is the resolution of the JPEG overlay, i.e. it becomes pixellated at too high a zoom. If Google Earth supported the SID format it would be much better.

The images above were created by doing a screen capture of the McMasters map at 25% zoom. I tried 12.5% and full size but they were too hard to position.

More than happy to have Shredward's help if he'd be willing... and thinks it worth doing. I'll set up another thread.

[Olham54]

Hi, DEJ
Shredward named a lot of sources in his private message, but I don't have any of them myself. Now, I don't know, how we could operate on this.
What I would like to do most (although it's a lot of stuff), is to search all the McMasters maps for airfields, make screenshots, and send them with the map links to you. But McMaster don't have maps covering all the areas. So, for the other fields, we would need other sources, or find Shredward's for us.
Any ideas?
Cheers. Olham

[Dej]

Olham,

What you suggest would be enough for a start. Find all the airfields you can and send me the screenies at 25% zoom. Shredward has lat and long for all the airfields in OFF so I can pin them on Goggle Earth even without a map overlay... a good way of cross-checking in fact. If you are able just to cut out the actual map display window, even better.

Now here's one for Shredward's attention, there are three airfields seemingly very close together to the west of Foucaucourt (-en-Santerre) and another to the south-east near Soyécourt. What airfields are these?

This is from the 08/1918 map of Hattencourt 62d SE, 62c SW, 66e NE, 66d NW, 66e SE, 66d SW reference 164WWIMAP at McMasters: http://lt1.mcmaster.ca/ww1/wrz4mp.ph...ap_id=164&view

[Olham54]

Hey,DEJ
Comparing Townsend's map with P2 data/airfields, it seems to me, that the 3 fields are regarded together as being "Foucaucourt airfield"; the Jastas there were:
1918-03-21 - 1918-04-06: Jasta 16
1918-04-18 - 1918-04-22: Jasta 34
1918-04-23 - 1918-04-22: Jastas 34,37
1918-04-24 - 1918-07-09: Jastas 34,37,77
1918-07-28 - 1918-07-27: Jastas 34,37
1918-07-28 - 1918-07-31: Jasta 34
1918-08-09 - 1918-08-10: Jasta 44

The fact, that there are three markings, could relate to April - July 1918, when there were three Jastas based.
Haven't checked the other one (down right) yet, but will try.
Greetings. Olham

[quoth]

Hi Guys

Sorry if I've missed this but how well does the map relate to the actual terrain in OFF?

Cheers

Q

[Dej]

Hi Guys

Sorry if I've missed this but how well does the map relate to the actual terrain in OFF?

Cheers

Q

Quoth,

Can't answer that one, I'm afraid. What I hope is that using the map overlays we can help pinpoint the airfields more accurately which could then be fed back into OFF... allowing for the limitations of the CFS3 map.

If there are any other 'missing' terrain features which the maps highlight they could perhaps be incorporated but I hesitate to suggest any of the OFF team have the time nor that it's important enough to warrant doing over and above any other improvements they are looking at.

[quoth]

I would disagree about the importance of the maps and relating them to OFF. I know others have developed maps to navigate by and I always remember when I used to play Rowans Software Flying Corps that it was possible to navigate by using the maps they supplied and recognising features (funny shaped woods, roads etc).
To me that was one of the most fun features

Anyway, good luck with your project

Cheers

Q

[Olham54]

Hi, quoth
You can actually navigate via OFF map - roads, rivers and cities are pretty accurate. And when DEJ and I get the Google map projekt together, you could print the part for you area or flight, and fly after that.
Cheers. Olham

[ovs]

Wow.. this stuff is amazing!! That's a great idea. I like it a lot. It's amazing to see exactly where all the trenches were, now on a modern map.

Great work.

OvS

[shredward]

Hi Dej,
There were aerodromes at Foucaucourt, Chuignes, Cappy, Proyart, Framerville, Vauvillers. I would say that the three crosses shown at Foucaucourt-en-Santerre are all the same airfield, with separate hangars for each unit based at the drome. Sorry, but I don't know who used the field at Soyécourt.
Cheers,
shredward