This is supposed to be fun??

[WarHorse47]

Later today the wife and I are taking a mini-vacation. We planned this weeks ago, but in reality I really need to get away from this computer and flightsimming. Here's why.

This month it seems I've been doing more tracking down of addon issues than actually flying and enjoying the hobby. I'm not going to name specific products, but I can tell you it all started earlier in the month when I had to do a complete reinstall of one product because it caused CTDs upon loading despite working fine for months. Then there are other product updates from a variety of developers. As of yesterday I attempted to fly a more recent addon, only to encounter a rash of CTDs and FSX restarts. After a series of uninstalls/reinstalls I finally just removed it entirely because I could not get anything to work despite it running flawlessly just a couple weeks ago.

My uneducated guess as to why these problems surface is that some of these products have become more complex that they are starting to conflict with each other. Not sure. No detailed error messages indicating what is happening. Not even the Win8 error reporting gives me a clue. The only thing that has changed with my FSX install is an update to the latest FSUIPC.

I love the complexity some of these addons bring to the hobby, and I have a high degree of respect for the effort that goes into these products. If I were to make a summary judgment at the moment, some developers get it right the first time whereas some developers either don't do a complete beta testing or release their products prematurely and leave it up to the paying customer to point out the problems. And then there is the long time delay of response from technical support when things do go bad. Sigh.

Rant over. Just had to get this off my chest.

[RKinkor]

In complete agreement with you there, having the same problem with a certain add-on. What I love is that certain add-on developer blames it on my system so go ahead and look into it fix it if it was broken in the first place plane works fine three times in a row. I go post on their forum that the fix worked then go fly it some more and the same problem starts happening again. By the way have a great vacation!

[Naruto-kun]

Well there is not much they can say when the addon seems to be working fine for so many others....Its rather frustrating for devs to try and solve these problems on another system. Kinda like working blind.

[ce_zeta]

Have a nice vacation!
Surely you will come back with the battery completely charged.

[WarHorse47]

Well there is not much they can say when the addon seems to be working fine for so many others....Its rather frustrating for devs to try and solve these problems on another system. Kinda like working blind.

That's understandable. The frustration comes from addons work fine for weeks or months, then all of a sudden they don't despite the fact nothing has changed with the default flight or FSX install.

From my experience the primary cause has been the gauges and xml routines. They are becoming so complex and sophisticated that the devs have no idea which subroutine or memory call is conflicting with another. If there was an application that would track and record such conflicts, so a report couple be shared with the devs it would make life easier. Instead we novices are tasked with tracking down the conflicts on our own without the devs expertise.

I should also add that my share of issues is not related to conflicts with my operating system (Win8), but appears to be related to conflicts within FSX modules or gauges or even scenery from different developers.

[Wizard]

I agree - have a good vacation. As a developer I can sympathize with both sides of the equation. My software has been in testing for 9 years, and it still comes up with surprising bugs. But every line of code is a bug waiting to happen - and I have in Underway! alone over 60,000 lines of code. Some of the problems we've discovered are actually Microbrain's fault and there is nothing I or anyone else can do about it. I try to find work-arounds, but sometimes there's nothing that can be done by a developer - it's up to M$ and we all know that won't happen any time soon.

"Breathe deep the gathering gloom, watch lights fade from every room". Ain't computers fun?

[Dev One]

Wizard, Now you know why it takes so long to develop, verify & validate real aircraft software, & as you say there are still bugs waiting to happen. Should I be paranoid about flying in a software driven aircraft? What about the efficiency or correctness of firmware?
Keith

[Geomitrak]

It would be useful if you could tell us which add-ons are causing you problems.

[Bjoern]

Five million different computer configurations and fifty trillion possibilities for bugs.


I wholeheartedly agree on the complexity part. A lot of add-ons are pushing FSX' envelope right into the "unstable" domain.

[roger-wilco-66]

Reminds me of our old dictum in the IT business:

99 little bugs in the code
99 little bugs in the code
Take one down, patch it around
117 little bugs in the code...

Stepping aside and taking a break is on of the best remedies.


Cheers,
Mark

[Wizard]

Wizard, Now you know why it takes so long to develop, verify & validate real aircraft software, & as you say there are still bugs waiting to happen. Should I be paranoid about flying in a software driven aircraft? What about the efficiency or correctness of firmware?
Keith

My wife, once upon a time, did her master's thesis on triple redundancy code - ie have three independent developers program the same function(s). Have a "supervisor" program that takes the best (ie very similar result) answer from at least 2 of them and use that answer to continue. Not efficient - but in fact, I believe the space shuttles used that approach.

As I recall the first 747 to cross the equator ended up flying upside down as the software hadn't taken into account the sign change from north to south. I may have the wrong aircraft, but I definitely remember reading about it. So, yeah, any software driven anything should be looked at askance. Another case in point is my Honda Civic Hybrid which this weekend on the way back from a weekend music festival announced that the IMA (not sure what it stands for, but essentially means the battery assist) was not functioning - which it clearly was. After an hour it decided that, well, maybe it was working, but the check engine light is still on. Now I get to go pay Honda to reset the damned check engine light and tell me what I already know.

M$ chose to tell us that a function call failed, but failed to tell us why. Thanks M$. Makes me real happy!

Be afraid. Be very afraid!

[anthony31]

Sometimes it is the user's system.

I had one customer who was having a problem. Between us we managed to figure out that the C++ gauge in the aircraft wasn't running at all. Turns out some server software he had installed and then removed was the cause of the problem (absolutely nothing to do with FSX). I'm sure glad he was knowledgeable about computers otherwise it would have been impossible for me to track down something like that.

[RKinkor]

It would be useful if you could tell us which add-ons are causing you problems.

In this case since apparently it is my system I will not name the developer as it would not be fair to hurt their sales.

[RKinkor]

Reminds me of our old dictum in the IT business:

99 little bugs in the code
99 little bugs in the code
Take one down, patch it around
117 little bugs in the code...

Stepping aside and taking a break is on of the best remedies.


Cheers,
Mark

Just the laugh I needed to start the morning thank you lol.

[Naruto-kun]

RKinkor, what intrigues me is that the suggestion I gave you worked for a bit and then it started happening again. That implies that somehow it got broken again. This belongs in the support forums but Ill say here that I would suspect that something on your system got updated and re-broke things. And no, what hurts sales is not so much a buggy product, but a dev who can easily fix things but refuses to for no darned reason, or a dev who just says "its your system" without trying to troubleshoot the cause of the system glitch.

P.S. A question waiting for you at the support forums.

[Ian Warren]

Reminds me of our old dictum in the IT business:

99 little bugs in the code
99 little bugs in the code
Take one down, patch it around
117 little bugs in the code...

Stepping aside and taking a break is on of the best remedies.


Cheers,
Mark

.. Now whats that song about 100 beer bottles hanging on the wall ...... If one was to accidently fall ..... there be 99 ...... well ya all know the rest

[roger-wilco-66]

.. Now whats that song about 100 beer bottles hanging on the wall ...... If one was to accidently fall ..... there be 99 ...... well ya all know the rest

Never heard that, must be a Kiwi thing :-)
But I most definitley prefer a beer over patching software bugs

Cheers!
Mark

[Ian Warren]

Never heard that, must be a Kiwi thing :-)
But I most definitley prefer a beer over patching software bugs

Mark , If Ya ever get over this way ... Ill sing the tune OR vi-sa-versa

[MHAircraft]

Reminds me of our old dictum in the IT business:

99 little bugs in the code
99 little bugs in the code
Take one down, patch it around
117 little bugs in the code...

We call it job security.