Looking for PSP

**dewoitine** · February 19th, 2014, 05:58

Looking for PSP (Periced Steel Planking) Marston Matt or others.

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Thanks for your answer !

**dewoitine** · February 19th, 2014, 06:05

So sorry but you must read "Pierced Steel Plating"

***Pat Pattle*** · February 19th, 2014, 06:25

Hi Andre, I think there is already a PSP texture in the ETO files which Joost made.
If not email me and we'll put something together.

Clive

**popsaka** · February 19th, 2014, 15:17

Clive, is there an airfield in ETO where one could experience the 'psp' effect?

***Pat Pattle*** · February 19th, 2014, 23:00

Hey Pops

I'm at work so can't check but any of the Advanced Landing Grounds (ALG) in the 1944 or 45 eras should have it. Need to ask Frosty really but he's busy working hard in RL these days.

***Frosty*** · February 19th, 2014, 23:27

Clive is right; there's an ALG in France, near the Normandy beaches (1944 or 1945) and one in Belgium or Luxemburg (1945, ALG-29 if I am not mistaken). In the Allied airfield folders there are three ALGs using PSP: one for fighters, one for bombers and one for transport AC. These are based on generic layouts/templates found in some official document. The RL airfields probably didn't look like this due to local terrain constraints etc. but they can be dropped into the scenery wherever you need an ALG.

I created a detailed PSP template that showed the terrain underneath (through the holes) but that doesn't show in-game. What we have now is something we have to live with until we know how to model the real deal, lightening holes and all... It's applied through the .MOS editor, just like the normal concrete runway slabs.

**dewoitine** · February 20th, 2014, 01:22

Hi all,

I did not understand everything but I have this photos from France 1940

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GC I/3 Meaux-Esbly may 1940

**popsaka** · February 20th, 2014, 01:52

Thanx guys. The 520 in that photo looks quite quick, whot?

**grizzly50** · February 20th, 2014, 05:06

Hey, guys, for the record, and in addition to what Frosty has said, there are three PSP fields in CFS3 ETO Expansion 1.40, in the ACC_Airfields folder, in the ETO Expansion main game folder

1. ALG Bomber
2. ALG Fighter
3. ALG Transport

They only appear in Era 5, 1945. Two, A-2 and A-29, are listed in QC under France, and one, Y-29 is listed under Belgium.

I hope this helps.

***Frosty*** · February 20th, 2014, 14:38

As usual Grizzly provides the most complete information! To illustrate the PSP, I dug up an old screenie from its development days:

**gaucho_59** · February 20th, 2014, 15:48

In the interest of veracity...
I beg to differ... it is neither pierced or whatever the other fellow wrote...
I am retired US Army officer... Viet Nam vintage 1969... so I speak with some authority...
both USA and USAF nomenclatures defined PSP as Perforated Steel Plates... back in WW2 and Korea the were
referred as Marston mats... but no longer....
We used then extensively in Viet Nam in Army airfields as well as sandwiched as well as in field hospitals (walkways and improvised
MEDEVAC Helo pads) Also, in the construction of bunkers... sandwiched between rows (piles) of sandbags (reinforced flexible fiberglass
plastic bags)...

In case anyone is interested I have developed texturing for PSP... the hues can be changed at will... done in layers... sizing as well as
it is in very high resolution... (800 pps)

***Pat Pattle*** · February 20th, 2014, 23:06

Very interesting points Gaucho, always goo to hear from someone with first-hand experience. Could I have a copy of that texture if that's possible please?

As well as the Marsden matting there was the lighter Sommerfeld steel rod type. I've also seen a steel Coir mat type, a version of which is in Andre's Meaux-Esbly photograph.

***Frosty*** · February 20th, 2014, 23:28

Gaucho, Thanks for your reply and effort but the screenie is not incorrect, it's a matter of what CFS3 can't or won't display. I don't like to quote myself but a few posts ago I explained that I did a similar texture as yours (I do know what PSP looks like) but that CFS3 won't display the damned thing as such. Even when it is displayed as it should in the .MOS Editor, the game engine turns it into what the screenie shows...

Originally Posted by Frosty

...I created a detailed PSP template that showed the terrain underneath (through the holes) but that doesn't show in-game. What we have now is something we have to live with until we know how to model the real deal, lightening holes and all... It's applied through the .MOS editor, just like the normal concrete runway slabs.

If you can make it work in CFS3, I'd very much would like to know how you did it. To have PSP runways and aprons as in, say, Mig Alley is something I would like to see very much!

**gaucho_59** · February 21st, 2014, 08:13

Originally Posted by Pat Pattle

Very interesting points Gaucho, always goo to hear from someone with first-hand experience. Could I have a copy of that texture if that's possible please?

As well as the Marsden matting there was the lighter Sommerfeld steel rod type. I've also seen a steel Coir mat type, a version of which is in Andre's Meaux-Esbly photograph.

Just PM me your email address and I will send it ASAP
Let me know whether you can open Paint Shop Pro images or Photoshop... (the PSP (mat) is textured over a blank background... that can be a grass texture or sand... or anything.
The color can be manipulated with Paintshop Pro or Photoshop...
Cheers,

Carlos

To Frosty... what I meant as incorrect was the name Pierced etc. Have no idea what CFS3 can or cannot display...(I operate FS9 and CFS2... in FS9 the texture can be displayed well... provided the original is in high definition to start with...)

**airfighter55** · February 22nd, 2014, 01:31

That is very very interesting !!!

I am searching for a small airfield with PSP for a long time !

Have we such an airfield in CFS3 ETO ?

airfighter55

***Frosty*** · February 22nd, 2014, 04:40

Originally Posted by gaucho_59

...To Frosty... what I meant as incorrect was the name Pierced etc. Have no idea what CFS3 can or cannot display...(I operate FS9 and CFS2... in FS9 the texture can be displayed well... provided the original is in high definition to start with...)

Thanks Carlos, I understand! Compared to CFS3 the 'civvie' sims' abilities to display runway textures etc. verges on photorealistic. Maybe it's time to try again. Could you post a screenie of your texture in action?

;-)

**gaucho_59** · February 22nd, 2014, 05:02

Originally Posted by Frosty

Thanks Carlos, I understand! Compared to CFS3 the 'civvie' sims' abilities to display runway textures etc. verges on photorealistic. Maybe it's time to try again. Could you post a screenie of your texture in action?

;-)

Given the size of the CFS3 textures... here is a first try... obviously if the textures can be made larger there is room to make them look more realistic...
I have not used the OD texture I presented previously in FS9 yet... when I do... I'll show it...
In the meantime... these two (horizontal and vertical elevations... depending on how the show in the sim.... one of the two should work) are food for thought and further experimentation...

***Pat Pattle*** · February 24th, 2014, 10:22

I've re-looked at some testing work that Kevboy and I did years ago on finding better runways.
In this pic the runway is made up of 50m sq blocks (gmax) and in this case rendered with Gaucho59's mat texture.
Obviously the scale is wrong and there are some issues with the texture flashing as you pan around but I think it has possibilities.
Anothe issue is the aircraft shadow appears under the mat! This has alpa allowing the grass through but may be better textured in.

Also, has anyone noticed that in the stock game buildings folder is one called 'runways'? Inside are 2 textures, one dirt the other concrete, that as far as I know do not appear in the game anywhere. I'm wondering if originally the developers were looking into modelled runways?

I'll see if I take this a bit further, if anyone else wants to try it let me know.

**gaucho_59** · February 24th, 2014, 10:35

Originally Posted by Pat Pattle

I've re-looked at some testing work that Kevboy and I did years ago on finding better runways.
In this pic the runway is made up of 50m sq blocks (gmax) and in this case rendered with Gaucho59's mat texture.
Obviously the scale is wrong and there are some issues with the texture flashing as you pan around but I think it has possibilities.
Anothe issue is the aircraft shadow appears under the mat! This has alpa allowing the grass through but may be better textured in.

Also, has anyone noticed that in the stock game buildings folder is one called 'runways'? Inside are 2 textures, one dirt the other concrete, that as far as I know do not appear in the game anywhere. I'm wondering if originally the developers were looking into modelled runways?

I'll see if I take this a bit further, if anyone else wants to try it let me know.

Interesting... my matting can be used leaving the holes transparent... and the grass would show through...
I am going to try that... pure green holes... and pass it through the DXT program... the picture you posted
shows the holes very well...so I imagine that the texture must allow detailing... if one can select the number
of tiles at will to cover the runway...at will.... then the size of the tile could permit detailing...
got to try that...
Cheers

***Pat Pattle*** · February 24th, 2014, 13:39

there are some issues with the texture flashing as you pan around

Sorted that problem, I've turned the xdp from a building into a carrier:

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<UnitData>
<General Allegience="0" LongName="" ShortName="runway_50x1000" ModelName="runway_50x1000.m3d" BlastDamageScale="1.0" ImpactDamageScale="1.0" FireDamageScale="1.0" Priority="2" Type="moving" EnteredService="01/01/1930" BlastDamageMod="0" ImpactDamageMod="0" FireDamageMod="0" AllowSpawn="n" Category="Carrier" Country="Britain" >
</General>
<GunStations>
</GunStations>
<Description String=""/>
<Moving MinSpeed="0" MaxSpeed="17" CruiseSpeed="9" GroupSize="1" Type="1"/>
<Loadouts/>
<DamageBoxes>
</DamageBoxes>
<Systems>
</Systems>
<Effects>
</Effects>
<Ship KeelDepth="10"/>0
<Airbase>
<Runway Start="0 0 -400" Stop="0 0 400" Width="50" Turn="10000" SurfaceType="concrete"/>
</Airbase>
</UnitData>

The runway now stays in view constantly, but a side affect is that the gear gets damaged on take off, any ideas anyone?
This has implications for cfs3 airfields with ground detail as per fs9

One of Kevs early test textures:

Interesting... my matting can be used leaving the holes transparent... and the grass would show through...
I am going to try that... pure green holes... and pass it through the DXT program... the picture you posted
shows the holes very well...so I imagine that the texture must allow detailing... if one can select the number
of tiles at will to cover the runway...at will.... then the size of the tile could permit detailing...
got to try that...

I used your layered image but without the coloured lower layers. In cfs3 when saved as a .dds with alpha the ground shows through the holes.
Not sure if that applies in the formats that fs9/x cfs2 uses?

**popsaka** · February 24th, 2014, 16:01

Okay, what is that radial engined bird in your 1st post??

(11:22 2-24-14)

**gaucho_59** · February 24th, 2014, 16:54

I think better than the second post (this one here)... I think the effect is good... when I first saw it without reading the text... I though.... Blimey...
this one looks good.... no need for my textures.... lol (not knowing it was my texture...lol)...
I think that if you can get the shadows to be upon it... it will fit the bill...

***Pat Pattle*** · February 24th, 2014, 21:26

Okay, what is that radial engined bird in your 1st post??

It's a Blackburn Skua Pops, http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/aircraft/skua.htm

I think better than the second post (this one here)... I think the effect is good... when I first saw it without reading the text... I though.... Blimey...
this one looks good.... no need for my textures.... lol (not knowing it was my texture...lol)...
I think that if you can get the shadows to be upon it... it will fit the bill...

I'm not sure that shadows will be possible, they only fall on the ground and not objects in cfs3 (so far). But your texture is great and ifok with you will continue using it.

As it stands the way forward is to model and texture the runways/taxiways in gmax and use in-game with a cut down carrier xdp file.
This also then opens possibilities of adding lighting or maybe even FIDO effects direct into the model.

***Frosty*** · February 24th, 2014, 23:30

Originally Posted by Pat Pattle

...The runway now stays in view constantly, but a side affect is that the gear gets damaged on take off, any ideas anyone?...

Does that also happen when landing on /taking off from a carrier? If not, there should be a solution.
On the other hand, I can understand that CFS3 would see this as a collision between two models, resulting in damage. If you omitted a damage box to avoid causing damage, I think the game engine uses a 'max bounding box' to define the max dimensions of a model (not sure if I understand it myself completely). So what would happen if you did create a damage box but buried it underground - that is, sitting way under the model, below groundlevel? The textures look great, though!

On a competely different note - but a bit related to the holes in the PSP: The CFS3 SDK documentation advises against the use of an alpha file to render parts of a model transparent but going through my vanilla CFS3 install, I noticed that the harbour cranes employ exactly that for the mast and the boom! That's a little odd, isn't it?

***Pat Pattle*** · February 25th, 2014, 01:14

Does that also happen when landing on /taking off from a carrier? If not, there should be a solution.
On the other hand, I can understand that CFS3 would see this as a collision between two models, resulting in damage. If you omitted a damage box to avoid causing damage, I think the game engine uses a 'max bounding box' to define the max dimensions of a model (not sure if I understand it myself completely). So what would happen if you did create a damage box but buried it underground - that is, sitting way under the model, below groundlevel?

Ah! good idea Joost! That's probably the reason , I'll try it later, thanks.

On a competely different note - but a bit related to the holes in the PSP: The CFS3 SDK documentation advises against the use of an alpha file to render parts of a model transparent but going through my vanilla CFS3 install, I noticed that the harbour cranes employ exactly that for the mast and the boom! That's a little odd, isn't it?

I read somewhere once that the use of alpha = fps so that's probably the reason for it. However there must also be a balance between the use of alpha and number of polys in a model?. I haven't noticed an fps hit with the psp texture in the screenies.

But thinking about it the ground underneath the psp is going to be darker/dirtier than the surroundings anyway, so having a fill in colour for the holes may look better.

Do you have time to explore any of this Joost?