RAZBAM SB2C-5 Helldiver

[Helldiver]

Skippybing, it was the British ships I had in mind when I mentioned "our allies". We tied up next to a Brtish Carrier in Panama City and the skipper looked at the lack of housekeeping there was on the other Carrier and ordered the crew to put on double rat guards. They had TBFs and F6Fs and they were in pretty rough shape as well as the general housekeeping on the ship.

[Piglet]

One thing about weathering I forgot..
Weathering is FUN!!!

[Gibbage]

One thing about weathering I forgot..
Weathering is FUN!!!

Then ill rope you in for a little "fun" next time im painting one of my birds! I hate weathering... Sadly my next bird will need a lot of it...

[YoYo]

Very simply TRUE about the Weathering.

1/Modern model, in time of peace - no, or very small Weathering.

2/Model of aircraft from any War or military period - no Weathering isnt true, anyone who thinks like this is wrong. Weathering is nessesery.

[Rich]

Helldiver please explain what your rantings has to do with the thread ???

You do'nt deserve allies with that attitude.

What Ship were you tied up next to ????

Skippybing, it was the British ships I had in mind when I mentioned "our allies". We tied up next to a Brtish Carrier in Panama City and the skipper looked at the lack of housekeeping there was on the other Carrier and ordered the crew to put on double rat guards. They had TBFs and F6Fs and they were in pretty rough shape as well as the general housekeeping on the ship.

[SkippyBing]

Skippybing, it was the British ships I had in mind when I mentioned "our allies". We tied up next to a Brtish Carrier in Panama City and the skipper looked at the lack of housekeeping there was on the other Carrier and ordered the crew to put on double rat guards. They had TBFs and F6Fs and they were in pretty rough shape as well as the general housekeeping on the ship.

Helldiver, I figured as much*, to be honest without knowing what the RN ship had been doing prior to you seeing her it's not really safe to extrapolate from one example, i.e. if she'd just come from a couple of months in the North Atlantic she wouldn't look pretty. If she'd been alongside for a few weeks then there was something up with that ship.
As an example I've got pictures of VICTORIOUS from through out the war and in some she's in excellent condition while in others she's obviously been at sea for an extended period and needs a lot of ship's husbandry, depending on when you saw her you'd have widely differing views.
As regards the aircraft I think one reason the RN's looked worn throughout the war was due to the use of a matt finish paint. The UK specification was for this as it was felt gloss finishes were more likely to give away the aircraft's position through the sun glinting off them etc. A side effect of this is that it's almost impossible to keep a matt finish looking clean as anyone who's seen an RN Lynx would know, even after a foam wash some of the exhaust and oil stains are still there.
Another factor with the aircraft is that even with the lend lease ones a lot of parts had to be sourced from the UK as they were specific to those versions e.g. seat harnesses, radios etc.

*Only four nations had carriers during WW2 and you were unlikely to have seen the French one!

[Barnes]

I'd love to meet Helldiver.

We have a friend his age who served in the Navy during ww2 and has the same attitude. He would be just like Helldiver if he was into joining forums like this one but actually would mean no harm by his comments but could be misunderstood in his attitude.

Of course - as I wont meet him, I can only hope he is genuine.

[Roger]

Let's keep it clean fellas...or should I say matt:mixedsmi:

[wombat666]

Skippybing, it was the British ships I had in mind when I mentioned "our allies". We tied up next to a Brtish Carrier in Panama City and the skipper looked at the lack of housekeeping there was on the other Carrier and ordered the crew to put on double rat guards. They had TBFs and F6Fs and they were in pretty rough shape as well as the general housekeeping on the ship.

That happens with a real 'Warship', especially one that has seen combat.

[Henry]

Wow - looks real enough to touch Cant wait to purchase

yup iagree with that
excellent:ernae::ernae:
H

[Helldiver]

Barnes, I sure would like to meet your friend from the Navy. Whenever I go to the VA I’m surprised at how few us WWII types there are. Most of them now are young guys from Viet Nam.
I’m genuine all right but my attitude is a defensive one. There are too many smart guys out there that read a book written by someone who wasn’t even born during the war, telling them how it was.
I can only tell what I know from my own experience, nothing more. But if there are guys that want to believe in these foolish fairy tales, so be it.
They won’t have me around much longer anywise. But the SB2C Helldiver was a good airplane, as good as any military aircraft could be. It always got me home safe and sound and I’ll fight anybody that says any different.

[Dimus]

Outstanding job on this one! As a fan of WWII aircraft modeling, really impressive job. Only two small critiques from me though. Double check the props. There is something very wrong with them. Im not sure how popular cuffed props are, but beside that, there is an inverse curv on the front side. This should be on the back side. Props typically have a shallow curv on them and that curv should be pointing too the pilot. Also, Navy birds were LOVINGLY cared for. The level of dirt on the texture may be find for a Marine Helldiver, that was stuck on an island, and found some 20 years after it was lost... =)

Here is a good photo of an SB2C's props and you can see the direction of the curv, and the overall shape of the cuffed paddle props.


Overall, GREAT work and really looking forward too it! Sorry about the critique. The props are a thing for me.

Thanks for posting this. This one is the Helldiver we have at the Hellenic Air Force Museum in Tatoi, my club's base. Any chance of a Greek paint in the end product?

[jp]

Okay, I'm a little late to the party here, but I would say the types and amounts of weathering probably varied based on many factors, including the ship aboard which the aircraft were deployed. I would also suspect that aircraft during 1943 would have more wear and tear than would an aircraft operating at the end of the war. With lower threat of retaliation, and more of a focus on striking at enemy facilities offensively rather than in a searching for and destroying enemy vessels, there would be more time for noncritical maintenence. Heres a video of our hellcats. http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65...i_World-War-II

[Bomber_12th]

[Bomber_12th]

[roger-wilco-66]

Awesome images, John! Thanks for sharing them!

Cheers,
Mark

[TARPSBird]

Great pics John, thanks for posting. Nice selection of paint and weathering options. Aircraft 520 looks fresh from the factory, probably still has those paper floor mats in the cockpit.

[Helldiver]

Bomber, what a nice set of pictures, ones that I hadn’t seen before. On planes 520, 1, and 68, the tail hook is properly stowed, which is usually the case unless your practicing landings. I wonder if the FSX one will give this option.
There were three positions for the hook, stowed, extended and lowered. If you left it in the extended position, it would go into a sort of loud humming at certain speeds. I notice that the CAF Helldiver never retracts its hook. Sort of an indication of the sad state of disrepair it has.
One of the pictures shows the Carrier’s photographer in the gunner’s seat. On board our ship he was a not too bright, Lt. JG that indulged in porn. He used to take pictures with a $300 buck camera and was an officer. Yet a guy that ran the guns, radio, and radar and most importantly, kept the pilot awake, could be an AMM 3/C. - Go figger.

[Cag40Navy]

I notice that the CAF Helldiver never retracts its hook. Sort of an indication of the sad state of disrepair it has.

Well, the CAF Helldiver is in good shape but i cant remember why they dont stow the tail hook anymore... Ive seen a few of their naval aircraft not stow there hooks. I think the issue comes up that they are very old aircraft so parts from originals dont exist anymore.

[SkippyBing]

Okay, I'm a little late to the party here, but I would say the types and amounts of weathering probably varied based on many factors, including the ship aboard which the aircraft were deployed. I would also suspect that aircraft during 1943 would have more wear and tear than would an aircraft operating at the end of the war. With lower threat of retaliation, and more of a focus on striking at enemy facilities offensively rather than in a searching for and destroying enemy vessels, there would be more time for noncritical maintenence. Heres a video of our hellcats. http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65...i_World-War-II

Nice video clip, now those Hellcats certainly are worn, guess it wasn't just the RN who didn't have time to clean stuff...

[Helldiver]

Regarding the CAF Helldiver, the extended strut on the tailwheel oleo shows that it needs servicing. The lack of covers for the tail wheel and the main landing gear covers are lacking. A friend, who also happens to be a master on an English Wheel, could rebuild them in about a week. The lack of SCR-522 radios, the Linear Amplifier and even the life raft shows a lack of attention to detail. God only knows what goes on that can’t be seen. Plus, unless they’ve wired it in the extended position, a good strong man can stow the hook manually. It’s an SB2C5-A and as such never wore the colors that they’ve painted it. From what I can see, it’s just a poor representation of a Helldiver.

[CWOJackson]

Regarding the CAF Helldiver, the extended strut on the tailwheel oleo shows that it needs servicing. The lack of covers for the tail wheel and the main landing gear covers are lacking. A friend, who also happens to be a master on an English Wheel, could rebuild them in about a week. The lack of SCR-522 radios, the Linear Amplifier and even the life raft shows a lack of attention to detail. God only knows what goes on that can’t be seen. Plus, unless they’ve wired it in the extended position, a good strong man can stow the hook manually. It’s an SB2C5-A and as such never wore the colors that they’ve painted it. From what I can see, it’s just a poor representation of a Helldiver.

I bet you didn't mind flying into the flak "back in the day" either.

[SkippyBing]

The lack of SCR-522 radios, the Linear Amplifier and even the life raft shows a lack of attention to detail.

Why carry the weight? It's a flying aircraft not a museum piece.
As to the rest of it I'm sure the FAA would have something to say if it was unsafe, and may well be the limiting factor when it comes to replacing/servicing the various components.

[fallenphoenix1986]

Painted in the wrong colours... ahh well may as well just sell it to Gillette and be done with it then....

Craig

[roger-wilco-66]

Also found a few nice contemporary images, where "wear and tear" is nicely depicted! Mostly SBDs though. Check out those prominent rivets on the SBD close up!

Cheers,
Mark

PS: how do you guys insert pictures inline into a posting? When I do this per drag and drop first the images show up fine but when submitting (or preview) I get errors and the images retard to a alphanumeric gibberish (text).


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