RAZBAM SB2C-5 Helldiver

[Gibbage]

Outstanding job on this one! As a fan of WWII aircraft modeling, really impressive job. Only two small critiques from me though. Double check the props. There is something very wrong with them. Im not sure how popular cuffed props are, but beside that, there is an inverse curv on the front side. This should be on the back side. Props typically have a shallow curv on them and that curv should be pointing too the pilot. Also, Navy birds were LOVINGLY cared for. The level of dirt on the texture may be find for a Marine Helldiver, that was stuck on an island, and found some 20 years after it was lost... =)

Here is a good photo of an SB2C's props and you can see the direction of the curv, and the overall shape of the cuffed paddle props.


Overall, GREAT work and really looking forward too it! Sorry about the critique. The props are a thing for me.

[delta_lima]

Pilot is still too small ....

Brilliant level of modelling - outstanding, really. This plane is by no means my cup of tea, and while I'm not likely to be a customer, I wanted to offer a sincere comment to say how genuinely impressed I am. Bravo Ron et al.

If your Skyray indeed is coming at some point, than this SB2C's level of quality portends some seriously impressive enjoyment of the Ford ....



dl

[fliger747]

It wouldn't hurt for you guys to let me fly this thing before you release it.....

Cheers: T

[crashaz]

I will 2nd the nomination for flieger to test fly it. :salute:

[Cazzie]

Has SOH's Helldiver seen this yet? You out there Robert, hope you caught a gander of this.

[TARPSBird]

Also, Navy birds were LOVINGLY cared for. The level of dirt on the texture may be fine for a Marine Helldiver, that was stuck on an island, and found some 20 years after it was lost... =)

Actually it looks about right to me. Navy aircraft are lovingly maintained when operational commitments allow, such as when you're in port or on a peacetime Mediterranean cruise. When you're aboard USS Essex (per markings on the Razbam plane) and fighting your way towards Japan, the flight schedule will only allow for some spot-paint corrosion control and essential cleaning - canopy glass, cockpit interior, fluid leaks, etc. Ordnance guys and fuelers scuff up the wings, paint gets chipped around access panels. I know this is a pet peeve of our own Helldiver, as he remembers those well-polished birds from his time in the fleet.

[Gibbage]

Not saying your wrong, but as I heard it, there was a LOT of time between deployments and action, even in wartime. Being a boat, it takes a long time to get from point A to point B. Weeks to even months can go buy, and there is little else to do then take care of the aircraft. After general maintenence is done, the only thing left to do was polish the birds! Even in wartime, there could be weeks between the action. I dont suggest factory fresh, but there is a lot of dirt on that thing that could be wiped off during some of the down time

[Julhelm]

Well I made the textures to depict it being in action, not between deployments.

[Barnes]

Well I made the textures to depict it being in action, not between deployments.

Great choice

[roger-wilco-66]

Well I made the textures to depict it being in action, not between deployments.

I think whatever people think how it should look like, you did an absolutly excellent job.
The easiest solution - since there are several liveries planned anyhow, I guess - is to offer a shiny version as well. That way everyone could pick the favorite version as it pleases him. Ahhh, and don't forget a paint kit :-)

I'm looking forward to that like nothing in recent times.

Cheers,
Mark

[Gibbage]

Ya. Its all a matter of choice. Thats why I include the dirt laters in my paint kits. Allows the customer to pick how dirty they want there birds

[Scratch]

Well I made the textures to depict it being in action, not between deployments.

I think you nailed it perfectly:salute:

[Piglet]

It's all too easy for over-weather a model. See this in plastic model building all the time.
Some develop the "Verlinden Syndrome", and slather dirt and washes all over the place. Chipped paint really gets overdone, especially on armor models. Yeah, we all have seen the pics of dirty, abused planes, but they were not all like that. Even the most beat-up planes I work on in RL have very little paint chipping.
Next time you see heavy earthmoving equipment, take a close(if possible)look at the weathering, and see how much bare metal areas are really showing.
Actually, most weathering is caused by trying to REMOVE weathering. Dirt, exhaust stains, fluids, can get rubbed into the paint, or scuff paint, etc.
Then there is the whole other world of SCALE. Some bits of dirt, or a chipped area, on a model would scale up, like 3 feet across in real life. Remember Airfix Rivets??

[TARPSBird]

Well I made the textures to depict it being in action, not between deployments.

I agree with Scratch, you nailed it.

[Mathias]

It's all too easy for over-weather a model. See this in plastic model building all the time.
Some develop the "Verlinden Syndrome", and slather dirt and washes all over the place. Chipped paint really gets overdone, especially on armor models. Yeah, we all have seen the pics of dirty, abused planes, but they were not all like that. Even the most beat-up planes I work on in RL have very little paint chipping.
Next time you see heavy earthmoving equipment, take a close(if possible)look at the weathering, and see how much bare metal areas are really showing.
Actually, most weathering is caused by trying to REMOVE weathering. Dirt, exhaust stains, fluids, can get rubbed into the paint, or scuff paint, etc.
Then there is the whole other world of SCALE. Some bits of dirt, or a chipped area, on a model would scale up, like 3 feet across in real life. Remember Airfix Rivets??

+1
Weathering in video games really became an end in itself. The funny thing, some confuse that with realism. If it doesn't look as if it had been situated in a Russian lake for the past 6 decades it's not realistic.

[Julhelm]

Then there is the whole other world of SCALE. Some bits of dirt, or a chipped area, on a model would scale up, like 3 feet across in real life. Remember Airfix Rivets??

That's because on a screen, as with plastic models, everything is seen at a reduced scale, and therefore certain details will have to be exaggerated. Everybody knows rivets aren't the size of coffee cups IRL but the fact of the matter is people expect rivets to be on a plane and so the coffee cup rivets look better than no rivets at all. Same thing with weathering and dirt. Sure it is exaggerated to some extent in games but at the reduced scale it looks more convincing than leaving it out simply because we expect surfaces to show certain details that may really be minute and we tend to react if they're amiss.

[Helldiver]

I guess it depends on the Commanding Officer, the Leading Chiefs and the Plane Captains. I can only relate to one Carrier. There the upkeep of planes was important, especailly the effects of corrosion.. Plus there was a "Bilge Rat" who used to crawl in the belly of the planes to pick up cigarette butts, chewing gum wrappers, various nuts and bolts. etc. I suppose there are ships (like some of our Allies) where keeping planes ship shape was not important.
A planes life typically would last anywhere from 3 to 6 months. Depending how much it got "stretched" during landing. Then it would be returned to A&R. So as far as my experience was concerned the planes were kept in very good condition. A lot of stuff that looks like weathering is because of the use of ubitiquos stencils. They had them every where. Even on the pressure relief vent for pilots with a weak bladder.

[MudMarine]

Not saying your wrong, but as I heard it, there was a LOT of time between deployments and action, even in wartime. Being a boat, it takes a long time to get from point A to point B. Weeks to even months can go buy, and there is little else to do then take care of the aircraft. After general maintenence is done, the only thing left to do was polish the birds! Even in wartime, there could be weeks between the action. I dont suggest factory fresh, but there is a lot of dirt on that thing that could be wiped off during some of the down time

My experience: There are no "down" times on a deployment. There is ALWAYS something to do, PM'ing aircraft to painting the ship etc. All aircraft are giving loving care. I was deployed on the LHA "Canal" and the LPH Iwo Jima (wwii carrier) and every helo was treated like a girlfriend, wife etc. Who wants to ride a broken down aircraft into or out of a firefight? Life at sea is 24/7, with little sleep and lots of coffee!

[Gibbage]

Sorry. "down time" was the wrong word to use. More like time between action when the aircraft were not A: being shot at and B: not flying. In the heat of battle, painting and cleaning is the last thing on your mind. Between sorties and action, it gets more attention.

P.S. to all vets, thank you for your service! :USA-flag:

Sadly, it looks like I started a weathering debate. Im sorry! I truly dont think there is a correct way or ammount of weather. Ultimatly its 100% up to the artist, and 100% up to each customer to like it or not.

[MudMarine]

I don't see it as a matter of debate but just a matter of personal taste. I like the worn and brand new look!

[TARPSBird]

Sadly, it looks like I started a weathering debate. Im sorry! I truly dont think there is a correct way or ammount of weather. Ultimatly its 100% up to the artist, and 100% up to each customer to like it or not.

It's all good Gib, we're just talkin' here. And you're right about the artist's choice of weathering. I've seen it a lot in my model railroad hobby. What looks realistic to one modeler might look totally over the top to somebody else.

[Mathias]

. More like time between action when the aircraft were not A: being shot at and B: not flying. In the heat of battle, painting and cleaning is the last thing on your mind. .

Sorry no, just wrong.
There where many ensignes dedicated to just serving the crates. That's true for all sides.
Add to it the fact that most crates didn't get old enough to develope any wear or tear you get the picture.

[SkippyBing]

Attachment 46380
FAA Hellcat, I'm guessing 1944 BIEF going by the markings. Slightly worn.
WAFUs sunbathing proving some things never change.
With a hat tip to Steven Eisenman who posted the photo at britmodeller.com

[Lateral-G]

It's all too easy for over-weather a model. See this in plastic model building all the time.

The 'Spanish Style' comes to mind.............that's the technique du jour for plastics these days.

[Prowler1111]

A lot of stuff that looks like weathering is because of the use of ubitiquos stencils. They had them every where. Even on the pressure relief vent for pilots with a weak bladder.

And that´s exactly what you´re looking at , in those pics, other than the leading edges "chips" the rest are stencils.
I really like the "worn out" effect on the paint..it does add a lot to the atmosphere.
Since there will be a paint kit (layered) it will be open to the customer to edit the finish to his/her own taste.
best regards
Prowler