Why was the Nemeth / Piracy thread locked ?

[Paul K]

Interesting to read everyone's thoughts on one of the most contentious issues facing this hobby and its developers. A little tetchy at times, but misunderstandings were quickly resolved, and it remained very civilized. Then arbitrarily closed down for no worthwhile reason.

Many of us might have wanted to contribute something more to it, so can we have it reopened or given a reason for it being locked ? I really don't understand this place at times.

[Roger]

Paul,
Not only was it likely to get "tetchy" and it was getting tetchier, it was also way off topic and going nowhere useful. The thread was on a "watch" list and with SOH being dubbed a "pirates'" site by someone after the "Duck incident" we are not prepared to risk more of the same after reading that some members almost seemed to condone piracy as it can't be stopped.
Our attitude to piracy is in the stickied area of both this forum and Newshawks.

If you want to start a thread dealing with similar issues (why???) ok, but if the staff feel it has transgressed it will be closed.

[Ian Warren]

I recall the day Nemeth Bros released may absolute fave in Helicopters - The CH53 , we don't see these in the NZ , the purchase was during the SP1/SP2 microsoft packs and caused all sorts off problems , i had a few ridiculous comments due to my frustration but final really got to enjoy that and never been disappointed with that chopper , I own 5
CH53 - Sea Stallion
MD500 - Little Bird
UH-1H - co-operation with Milviz
Sykcrane - as above
A109 which is a treat

End off the day , Our good friend s the Nemeth Bros and many others whether is Helicopters , Aircraft and Scenery require help , I do it free for a few NZ designers
simply for the getting it right and making it real .

Just a pity stealing is all to common - sudo names and no honest connection .

[skyhawka4m]

Just so everyone is aware I DID NOT start that thread with any ill will or intentions. I posted it as a "new" worthy FS issue. If some one here thinks I posted it in support of piracy, I highly suggest you read all my comments in the thread. Frankly, just because of that issue and someone else's comments I've decided to purchase 2 more FS products. When you put the (why???) like that in your comment it seems you question my motives or anyones who would want to put out a news issue like this.

[wombat666]

Just so everyone is aware I DID NOT start that thread with any ill will or intentions. I posted it as a "new" worthy FS issue. If some one here thinks I posted it in support of piracy, I highly suggest you read all my comments in the thread. Frankly, just because of that issue and someone else's comments I've decided to purchase 2 more FS products. When you put the (why???) like that in your comment it seems you question my motives or anyones who would want to put out a news issue like this.

We understand it was most certainly 'Newsworthy'.
We also agree with your views on 'Theft' aka 'Piracy'.
We believe your motives were above board, but the thread had become contentious and ceased to remain relevant to the original content.

[michael davies]

I suspect my comments were seen as condoning piracy or theft, after all I didn't pointedly say I loathed them or disagreed to what they were doing, merely pointed out they existed and anyone who dares to ignore that fact is doing themselves and injustice and quite frankly the community a disservice, ignorance and denial are no excuse to skirt this issue. I don't like them, but its not I point I feel after 13 years in payware (and having probably been robbed more than most here in that time) I have to express every time one of these posts pops up. I suppose I was also way off topic in most of what I wrote, but have, and always will take the view that you have to first understand the problem before you can begin to fix it, and that often means exploring avenues that meander to a dead end.

One thing is clear though, what ever we are doing (collectively) or not doing, is most certainly not working, maybe an off topic suggestion or idea might be whats needed?, who knows, does anyone care?.

Its also saddening to hear SoH has a gun held to its head by an aggrieved payware developer on some, quite clearly, mis founded evidence.

In future I'll keep well away from such threads, I'd rather suffer in silence than worry that something said in good faith might upset someone.

Best

Michael

[Mathias]

Michael Davis is a piracy supporter?
That's like accusing Mother Theresa of blasphemy.

[michael davies]

That's like accusing Mother Theresa of blasphemy.

I did hear a rumor once...... LOL.

[Roger]

The "why???" was simply back to Paul as the piracy issue has been discussed at length many times and there is no conclusion to be drawn...except that it's a parasite on the backs of developers and can never be stopped entirely.
I've known Michael way back before his Mother Teresa days when he was simply Malcolm Muggeridge :costum: ...and understand his stance completely.

We can't stop piracy but as a forums site we have to tread very gingerly in these areas and I accept the closing of the thread may have seemed heavy handed, but from a staff point of view it could easily have been closed earlier.

[michael davies]

We can't stop piracy but as a forums site we have to tread very gingerly in these areas

This may be true, but its still wrong . This site is no more a harbor for these individuals than any other site, payware forums included, and for anyone to claim otherwise simply does not have a comprehensive grasp on reality .

Its a travesty where accusers can basically dictate to innocents how they must behave and topics of discussion, or via innuendo, dictate like wise.

Does SoH dictate or suggest or claim to tell others what they are or are not, what they can discuss or not?, no, didn't think so. Its about time these people kept their piggy little fingers out of pies that do not belong to them IMHO.

Its not my site and I'm a guest, and as such will and always have try/tried to abide by said rules, but globally its about time honest decent folk told these people, who clearly do not have enough to do in their day to fill their time, where to take it.

Once again I digress off topic <sigh>.

Kindest

Michael

[warchild]

I would like to add my two cents.. I'm probably the easiest going, most laid back moderator here, but, the other thread got to a point where people were outright insulting other people.. When i see stuff like that, and other puerile behavior's, I have to take a real hard look at the insulter, and most of the time, i'll close the thread. Opinions are great, but just like real life theres a place for general opinion, and a place for private opinion.. When private carries over into public its like someone taking a dump in downtown anywhere in the world. Its just not acceptable. We let one insult go by in that thread. This morning, I woke up to a PM about another.. Litterally woke up to it.. I had just climbed out of bed.. I personally dont care whats said, as long as publicly the fangs stay in the mouth and not on my forum.. Please take some things private.. We dont allow smearing. All of you people are special to me. I'd like to keep you that way.. But consistent and vicious behavior will get no one anything more than id give a rabid dog.. And Michael, I hope you dont think that was aimed at you. It wasnt.. Its a statement for everyone.. In effect, I agree with you, but until people can discuss the issues in an intelligent adult manner, I just dont see that discussion happening..
Pam

[Roger]

This may be true, but its still wrong . This site is no more a harbor for these individuals than any other site, payware forums included, and for anyone to claim otherwise simply does not have a comprehensive grasp on reality .

Its a travesty where accusers can basically dictate to innocents how they must behave and topics of discussion, or via innuendo, dictate like wise.

Does SoH dictate or suggest or claim to tell others what they are or are not, what they can discuss or not?, no, didn't think so. Its about time these people kept their piggy little fingers out of pies that do not belong to them IMHO.

Its not my site and I'm a guest, and as such will and always have try/tried to abide by said rules, but globally its about time honest decent folk told these people, who clearly do not have enough to do in their day to fill their time, where to take it.

Once again I digress off topic <SIGH>.

Kindest

Michael

Well Michael,
We were the first site to rehost the Fs9 Duck, after careful consideration, but we aren't stupid and we do have confidence in our staff to make solid decisions about such matters.
However there is much more to it than the Duck situation, which as you will appreciate is discussed in camera and we believe that we tread a considered line for the benefit of the site and its members.

Roger.

[michael davies]

intelligent adult manner

Pam,

Just to snippet quote, and in no way an attempt to undermine your reasoned post.

I concur and as noted in the original thread, there must be the 'will' to change and until that arrives and the above quote becomes the norm then the issue and many others will not be resolved.

Regarding waking up to a hate mail, don't, don't look at the forums or email for the first 60-90mins of the day, that way at least some of the day was pleasant, rather than being kicked into a foul mood from minute one LOL.

Best

Michael

[warchild]

:::LOL:: Nahhh, it wasnt hate mail.. Just a concerned member who asks some very good questions... But you make a good suggestion and one i should practice ::lol::..

[michael davies]

Well Michael,
We were the first site to rehost the Fs9 Duck, after careful consideration, but we aren't stupid and we do have confidence in our staff to make solid decisions about such matters.
However there is much more to it than the Duck situation, which as you will appreciate is discussed in camera and we believe that we tread a considered line for the benefit of the site and its members.

Roger.

Roger, I didn't mean to intimate you or anyone else was stupid and I do know full well all or almost all of the behind the scenes politics that goes on, I was lucky, all my hate mail was aimed at my products or assisted products, the solution was easy, fix the product, problem goes away , here your deaing with opinions and ideals, much harder to fix.

I think SoH does very well, even if at times its hard to comprehend.

Kindest

Michael

[emfrat]

What bothered me was that so many people seemed to have the view that since the torrent trolls were going to steal it, they might as well steal it too - but that would be the developers' fault for not protecting their software.
That is just not acceptable.
MikeW

[mmann]

Look at what happened in Vancouver, B.C. after a hockey game. This the mentality of humanity that you have to deal with. I am so very glad that I only do (did) freeware!

Regards, Mike Mann

[lazarus]

Quote....What bothered me was that so many people seemed to have the view that since the torrent trolls were going to steal it, they might as well steal it too - but that would be the developers' fault for not protecting their software.
That is just not acceptable.
MikeW


I know that condoning theft was not my intent, or an one elses, nor is the "every one is doing it, why shouldn't I" argument valid. I was simply pointing out that relying on the mob to behave honorably is a recipie for disapointment, sadly. We have to go to extraordiary lengths here to secure any and everthing against propery crime. Not just stuff worth stealing, anything. a 25lb concrete garden mushroom! I had to tune up a pair of geniuses amusing themselves this morning at 01;30 trying to kick the stand pipe off the side of the house, after absconding with 20ft of cheap wally world garden hose! My 1988, scaby rusty Astrovan with a broken factory stock radio, nothing in except seats and dog hair, is broken into at least 4 times a year, has been stolen twice in the past 4 years, The break and enters became so regular that we had to dump 1800 clams on security gates and grates for the first floor, so they'll steal the door mat and light bulb out of the porch instead! Unfortunatley,
for better or worse, all you can do is try to make every thing as hard as possible to steal, bust heads when you catch them at it, and carry on with your life- though I really wouldn't mind being able to put in a mine field, or keep a couple of Cheetas in the yard, or a few Rattle snakes in the truck....

[N2056]

And so now it would seem that the discussion is going right back to being a continuation of the thread that got locked...which tends to be why almost every time someone starts a "why did you lock that thread?" post it eventually suffers the same fate. I'd rather not lock threads, but I'm ready on this one...

[TeaSea]

I absolutely NEVER know what's going on!!



It's like there's a whole world going on around me that I keep missing.....

[lazarus]

Sorry.:toilet:

[N2056]

Hey, given the topic it's understandable...no worries

[Phantom88]

Ryan Mason of Nemeth Design was just on "10 min Taxi" explaining what happened

[Paul K]

And so now it would seem that the discussion is going right back to being a continuation of the thread that got locked...which tends to be why almost every time someone starts a "why did you lock that thread?" post it eventually suffers the same fate. I'd rather not lock threads, but I'm ready on this one...

Why not just let people have an ongoing discussion and let it expire through natural causes ? Every conversation veers off topic to some degree as new opinions are posted and reacted to. The subject of piracy ( an important one in this hobby ) is merely being talked about, not condoned or practised. There is no reason to lock this thread, is there ?

[michael davies]

And so now it would seem that the discussion is going right back to being a continuation of the thread that got locked...which tends to be why almost every time someone starts a "why did you lock that thread?" post it eventually suffers the same fate. I'd rather not lock threads, but I'm ready on this one...

The problem is, people want to have their say, everytime it is squashed it re appears in another guise, a bit like that arcade Gophers game . Eventually it will die of its own accord if left to run its course. You can either let it run with out interaction (hardly desirable or mature), let it run with close observation and interaction (preferable) or simple ban all conversation on the matter (people will simply go elsewhere).

The forum exists for one simple reason, flight sim, of which 90% of topics are based on addons, very little is based on the core product, if those addons cease or decline (which they currently are) then there is less reason for a forum per se.

The issue has always been thorny and will continue to be as it becomes more prevalent, you can either ignore it and deal with the fall out later, or continually attempt to keep it in check. Acceptance of the issue is not condonancy, though I accept to some it may appear that way.

Finally, keep up the good work.

Kindest

Michael