Why was the Nemeth / Piracy thread locked ?

[ZEUS67]

My two cents. Add-ons are at the end of things, software. All software can be provided with a lock, which is not foolproof, but it will deter most casual downloaders.

But all that will do is buy time, since somebody will break the lock and post it on the net.

Piracy is something that not even multibillion corporations can truly do anything. The only way to make people purchase your products is to give them more value than just the plain purchase. Customer Support or downloadable content, available only with proof of purchase. Stuff like that is the only thing that will keep people come back to your store.

But you must remember that almost everybody who download a pirated product, is not a customer lost. That person was never a customer for whatever reason.

[Piglet]

And people wonder why I don't go payware...
The best part of that closed thread was the new term I learned from that thread:
Dummy Spitting!

[mmann]

And people wonder why I don't go payware...
The best part of that closed thread was the new term I learned from that thread:
Dummy Spitting!

+1
Yes the Dummy Spitting part was most certainly the highlight of that thread!

Regards, Mike Mann

[CWOJackson]

I believe there are three things that contribute significantly to the problem:

- To add to what Zeus said, the relationship of the manufacturer and customers. Is a vendor that has a strong and responsive relationship with it's customers as pirated as one that has a more distant/less responsive relationship? Is part of the psychology is that it's okay to pirate from a vendor that you don't like?

- What degree does cost (also mentioned by Zeus) play? Is there a threshold where the conscience feels pirating is acceptable? "I can afford $20 but screw $60!" What happens when you combine both of the factors? For instance, is a vendor that has a great relationship with their customers, produces exceptional products and priced low as impacted by piracy as a company with a tenuous relationship with their customers and charges a higher price?

- Lastly, I have to wonder what the statistics are for the different types of addons? For instance, was the DC-2 (outstanding as it is) as pirated as any of the numerous spitfire packages? What about the A2A Boeing 377 and Piper compared to the latest fighter package? Are bush pilots more honest then fighter jocks?

[jeansy]

And people wonder why I don't go payware...The best part of that closed thread was the new term I learned from that threadummy Spitting!

More than happy to share the language of the Aussie bum

[Naki]

I learnt something new...I thought "spat the dummy" was known worldwide.

[Meshman]

Am I being too naive to think that we could come up with something that worked for the majority of users, didn't cost developers much (if anything) to use and would make the pirates job a real PITA?

I believe I've mentioned this before, but when I released my first work through online stores it hit the sharing sites (forums, not torrents) fairly quickly. I then changed to primarily selling from my site and have not seen any subsequent work shared. It might have been, but I haven't seen or heard about it.

I had, and will have again, a page that addresses theft on my site. I warn the potential customer that would want to share that there are identifiable features to each sale's product files. For any user of the work I do, there is no intrusion, no activation, nothing to disrupt the everyday-joe from enjoying what he paid for. For the person who would want to share, if I find the files, it would take me about two minutes to know who had done so. And I did, and will again, caution people that I will name names on the web site.

I can't stop all of it, but I can hope to deter some of it. I feel it's an issue that I must address with any potential customer, but that 99% of the people won't have a problem with. Might I lose or have lost some sales because of it? Don't know, but that is a consequence I have thought about and am willing to accept.

As my solution has shown, you can try to deter without be a pain in the rear about it. While my scope of business is in terrain based products, there may be somewhat similar solutions available for those that model airplanes or helicopters or high-end airport work. Sometimes you just need to think outside the bun! <----old tagline for a line of Taco Bell commercials.

[Francois]

@Bjoern Thanks for your thoughts, I appreciate it.

FWIW, my reasoning for granting a discount to 'pensioners' (I hate talking of OLD people myself), would NOT only be to curb piracy ( I personally think THEY are the least pf our problems in that respect) but more of a 'general acknowledgement' for what they have done for us as follow-up generations... and for hanging i there.

Students will have time enough in their life to build brilliant executive careers and save some oney for nice add-ons AND will need to still somehow PROVE they're worth the respect ;-) No disrespect meant in that, but I am sure you understand what I mean. ;-)

Some of the other ideas hold merit, and some have been thought about already. We'll also have something incorporated in our new FlightSchool product which is related the the one product that has NEVER been pirated yet, Its Your Plane.

Another issue that is making things harder for me as publisher (and not developer) is that I need to convince the actual developers that giving discounts - and hence subtracting from our mutual income - is a good idea
Some will agree, some won't.

And some products just don't lend themselves for it. Our 10 Euro Dolomiti X series is already priced way below the effort to build it, for instance.

So, whoever said producing add-ons for FS is simple ?

[Francois]

Am I being too naive to think that we could come up with something that worked for the majority of users, didn't cost developers much (if anything) to use and would make the pirates job a real PITA?

Maybe not naive, but you'll find it is a LOT harder than it would seem. I've been in this hobby for over 35 years now...... surprise me :-)

[emfrat]

Somewhere - and honestly I am not sure where, it's been so long - I have a file for a printable Dummy-Spit-of-the-Week Certificate, which was a valuable stress management tool in our department.
The last award I was involved in was to a colleague, who e-mailed everyone a memo, apologising for cancelling a meeting which he had somehow failed to tell us about in the first place...the award was not for that, but was given when he blew his stack on finding about ten copies of the email stuck up on the section of the office wall reserved for such howlers; from memory several people were trampled in the rush to display it.
Happy Days...

MikeW

[wombat666]

While the various suggestions made to combat thieves are mostly interesting and intelligent, the single greatest problem remains with a product purchased by an apparently legitimate customer which ends up on a torrent site.
It has happened in the past and it will continue to do so, certain groups of thieves club together and purchase a subject which they 'share', inevitably this ends up on a certain open torrent site and goes feral.
As we have seen, for obscure legal reasons the site in question remains untouchable.

Why do people do this?
Some 'Because they can.'
Others because they are just thieves plain and simple.
Most because they like to big note themselves and have a small penis.

I think this thread has almost run its course and perhaps it would be wise to take a low profile on possible security matters, we never know who might be following the subject with an unhealthy interest.
Discretion is a wise choice.

[fsafranek]

Back when I was a working stiff, about six years ago and I had more money than brains. I bought about everything that was advertised. Just as long as it hung a propeller. Then I quit working and went on Social Security. About that time my hard drive froze up, I also changed my e-mail address (it was stolen from me) plus I changed my Charge Card account.
I got me a new hard drive and tried to get my aircraft back. I had 12 of them from Alpha but because he didn’t recognize my name or my e-mail address we got into a real peeing contest and I didn’t get my aircraft back.
Then there was a Russian outfit that sold me Moscow Airport and had a password that was 400 characters long. They didn’t recognize me.
I then took on Fight One. They had 22 airplanes that I had purchased. It took them a year. But God bless them, they at least made good.
Caranado was quite different. They refused to even acknowledge I ever existed. Even though I had bought 12 airplanes from them. I fought with them for a month and finally gave up. There were others that I bought one or two from with the same negative results. So there’s countless 100 of dollars down the drain, without a thank you. Or any airplanes that I had paid for.
Now I’m living on Social Security and I’m looking at Spendware airplanes that are selling for $35. About what FSX originally cost me, come to think about it. Now I don’t care how nice it s, I can’t afford to throw away that kind of money with no guarantee that I can get it back when everything turns brown.
Now if my kid brother, in Alabama, sends me a nice airplane - than that makes me a pirate. But under my current circumstances, I just can’t afford to be ripped off any longer.

This is too late to help with any of the above situations but I saw it the other day while trolling for FS/Mirage news. At the time I shrugged it off as just another add-on that I wouldn't need since I'm pretty anal about backups. But I saw this FSX Backup utility again this morning and remembered Hewlldiver's post. So for what it's worth:

http://www.fspilotshop.com/product_i...oducts_id=2991
:ernae:

[Bjoern]

I have a better one:

I will sell you the afterburners for 2 bucks, the landing gear for 5, the wings and fuselage for 10, the pilot figure for free, the paint kit for a buck, the VC for 10, all steam gauges for 10, any glass for 15-20 and the rest for free... oh.. Sound and a manual for 5 bucks.

I'm not even sure what all this adds up too.

As long as you can "componentize" the stuff stored in the .mdl... ;P

FWIW, my reasoning for granting a discount to 'pensioners' (I hate talking of OLD people myself), would NOT only be to curb piracy ( I personally think THEY are the least pf our problems in that respect) but more of a 'general acknowledgement' for what they have done for us as follow-up generations... and for hanging i there.

Students will have time enough in their life to build brilliant executive careers and save some oney for nice add-ons AND will need to still somehow PROVE they're worth the respect ;-) No disrespect meant in that, but I am sure you understand what I mean. ;-)

I don't. And I feel slightly offended. And discriminated.

If the world outside gives benefits to students or dinosaurs, why can't the internet? All it'd take for me would be mailing a certificate of immatriculation to a publisher that can be verified at the university's homepage and done.

Heck, even fast food joints grant a 10% rebate upon showing your student ID!

while trolling for FS/Mirage news

Haha!

[Aussiecop]

This thread has a pretty good bunch of suggestions, some of which we are looking at, in regards to discounts, w have started running sales etc and I do help fellow simmers out, although I don't publish the things I do behind the scenes I am an avid supporter of the military and the sacrifices they make to keep us safe. I recently got an email from a soldier posted in Iraq who had some issues as he was running on a laptop and fsx and our helos keep him sane.

We have some things like hsi knobs that are activated by the mouse wheel, I didn't want him to have issues being that this was his only
Vice, so I went and bought him a mouse at the store and sent it to him in Iraq.

These are the things that you don't hear developers doing but I am sure happen, everyone can do better as a developer, but we do try to do things to help people as well as sell payware


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[N2056]

I recently got an email from a soldier posted in Iraq who had some issues as he was running on a laptop and fsx and our helos keep him sane.

We have some things like hsi knobs that are activated by the mouse wheel, I didn't want him to have issues being that this was his only Vice, so I went and bought him a mouse at the store and sent it to him in Iraq.

That was a very class thing to do. Thanks for supporting our troops! :salute:

[ZEUS67]

I believe there are three things that contribute significantly to the problem:

- To add to what Zeus said, the relationship of the manufacturer and customers. Is a vendor that has a strong and responsive relationship with it's customers as pirated as one that has a more distant/less responsive relationship? Is part of the psychology is that it's okay to pirate from a vendor that you don't like?

- What degree does cost (also mentioned by Zeus) play? Is there a threshold where the conscience feels pirating is acceptable? "I can afford $20 but screw $60!" What happens when you combine both of the factors? For instance, is a vendor that has a great relationship with their customers, produces exceptional products and priced low as impacted by piracy as a company with a tenuous relationship with their customers and charges a higher price?

- Lastly, I have to wonder what the statistics are for the different types of addons? For instance, was the DC-2 (outstanding as it is) as pirated as any of the numerous spitfire packages? What about the A2A Boeing 377 and Piper compared to the latest fighter package? Are bush pilots more honest then fighter jocks?

Companies with a strong customer relationship get as pirated as the ones with a tenous one. The difference is that the customers will keep purchasing from that company because of the added value of the relationship.

A company with poor or non-existent support, well IMO some would believe that since there is no difference between purchasing it and grabbing it from the net they may as well get it free.

Customer support/relationship is the only thing that can deter piracy and avoid turning a paying customer into a "pirate." And happy customers are the best advertising there is.

[Francois]

I don't. And I feel slightly offended. And discriminated.

No reason to.
I noticed over the past years here that there's quite a few things you don't understand yet. Or maybe don't WANT to understand?
I'll blame it on age and experience... or rather lack thereof.... and shrug it off ;-)

[warchild]

Gentlemen, please.. Some of us "dinosaurs" dont deal so well with intellectual sparring matches, and i'd hate to see this thread closed because it got out of hand...
If you wish to spar, please take it private.. Otherwise i just might get upset, and you wouldnt want to see me upset.. Really..
Pam

[Francois]

'FS Dinosaurs'... great title for a new product ;-)

[warchild]

:::LOL:: I SO needed that Francois.. Thank you

[Bjoern]

No reason to.
I noticed over the past years here that there's quite a few things you don't understand yet. Or maybe don't WANT to understand?
I'll blame it on age and experience... or rather lack thereof.... and shrug it off ;-)

Oh well, whatever.

[CWOJackson]

'FS Dinosaurs'... great title for a new product ;-)

If Piglet builds it I'll fly it.

[Francois]

[OleBoy]

'FS Dinosaurs'... great title for a new product ;-)

That puts the word "pit" in a complete new perspective

[jmig]

Which companies (developers) use this "Steam" process in their models?