Major Japan Earthquake!

[deathfromafar]

Ditto.

Another question I have. Up until now the reactors are being cooled by sea water in a hastily set up manner. Is the contaminated sea water contained on site or is it being pumped back out to sea?

I've heard some reports that the discharge went back into the sea but no confirmation. Normal plant operations release discharge back into waterways/sea but that type of discharge is normally exchanger/turbine with minimal to no contamination. Most of the "hot radioactive" water is kept captive for storage/disposal either on site or shipped offsite. The "hot" steam releases under normal operations are usually short duration and the isotopes(very low level) in those are short lived and dispersed quickly.

In the Fukushima situation, being that the heat levels have been very high, it's likely a good bit of the water being pumped in is turning into steam which isn't good either as it can carry isotopes/particulate matter airborne for some distance. This steam/discharge though is without a doubt highly contaminated from byproducts caused by core heat/melting.

PS, I am NOT a Nuclear Expert but in my line of work & past work, I have been through a good bit of related classroom and practical training on the subject matter. I'm sure I have forgotten more than was taught to me! No question it is a very complex & serious business(Nuclear Energy & Nuclear related industry).

[jhefner]

Yeah, right ........

Don't listen to me then; listen to these:

http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/1...e-explanation/

Just a reminder, to keep things in perspective:

* Earthquake and Tsunami -- 10,000(+?) dead, 1800(+?) wounded
* Fukushima Nuclear accident -- 1 dead, <50 wounded?

And this was after a major catastropic event; about the only thing I could think of that may have been worst would have been a direct hit by a jetliner or military aircraft. Granted, the worst is not over. But this is a teachable moment for nuclear power, just like the two space shuttle accidents, not a time to call for them to be shut down.

Life itself carries risk; increasingly, we as a society have become wimps when it comes to risk taking. Aviation and the world we live in was built upon the literal blood and sweat of our forefathers; now we believe everything has to carry zero risk.

What are the alternatives to nuclear power? Fossil generation, with it's emissions and the hazards of mining for coal, fracing for natural gas, or getting oil from deep water wells or the Middle East? Wind, with its unpredictability, spotty availability, and bird strikes by endangered species? Solar, with mining hazards in getting the materials used to build solar panels and it's spotty availability?

Hoover Dam could not be built today because of the environmental damage it caused to the Colorado River. And if you think hydro is risk-free, check this out:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/200...a_dam_acc.html

A zero risk society is one that achives nothing but a backward slide to the caveman era. The objective should be to minimize risk, not eliminate it altogether. But, in our current, lawsuite happy environment, that is no longer the case.

[kilo delta]

A fire has reportedly now broken out at reactor #4. Going from bad to worse.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12754883

[GT182]

Worse is right. It's classified as a 6 now. 1 higher than Three Mile Island and 1 less than Chernobyl. Things do not look good.

What gets me is the Japanese authorities said there'd be no problems with the Nuc plants. I'm sure they knew something was wrong but kept it quiet as long as they dared.

[deathfromafar]

This just went out on Associated Press:

FUKUSHIMA, Japan – Japan suspended operations to prevent a stricken nuclear plant from melting down Wednesday after a surge in radiation made it too dangerous for workers to remain at the facility. Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said work on dousing reactors with water was disrupted by the need to withdraw. "So the workers cannot carry out even minimal work at the plant now," Edano said. "Because of the radiation risk, we are on standby."

That is a very ominous sign. With all the overlapping reports today on fires and explosions at different buildings, it's been nearly impossible to get a clear picture of what is really going on.
If the full evacuation of personnel has happened, it is in all likelihood a runaway situation. If opinion matters at this point, I suspect things have or will soon escalate to a Level 7 accident.

My God, I hope I am wrong.

[N2056]

I have been watching these events closely as I actually do work in the field. The reason I have not gotten into this thread has a lot to do with weeding through the news reports for credible info before I say anything. A lot of what has been reported must be taken with a grain of salt, but I must admit that what is happening there is not good.

This is the site I monitor...http://ansnuclearcafe.org/

The reason I decided to post stems from news reports I saw tonight about people on the west coast of the USA (which is where I live) grabbing up Potassium Iodide.

Please do not take it without professional advice. It's not like taking aspirin.

[deathfromafar]

I agree N2056, the news reports are at times all over the place and it's pretty much impossible/not completely trustworthy. My NBC Specialist Advisers were getting direct feed from the JSDF and another credible Civilian Govt source there but as of 24 hours ago, those sources went quiet and we've been forced to move laterally to verify information. It's still a cluster-f over there and a lot of feet are stepping on each other trying to accomplish some kind of a good outcome.

So far, the people I've trusted on judgment have called this thing right in terms of making accurate predictions and stable probability calls as well. It's a terrible feeling when you realize you're right about something so bad.

Also regarding the Potassium Iodide, as said, it's nothing to fool with without direct medical advice. There is no need for people to panic on this side of the big pond. If any of that matter reaches us, it will be very low level with close to zero risk of acute exposure.

[boxcar]

.
Having posted this in 2 other international forums yesterday a.m., am also posting this here... my words.
.

"Regarding the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex, here's the real danger in this situation, people, so far as can be personally discerned in this moment. The spent nuclear fuel rods are stored in 40 to 45 foot deep pools of water to keep them cool. They are stored near the roofs on the top level of the reactor buildings... the roofs that have blown off... 3 out of 4 of them so far. While the spent fuel rods are not nearly as fissile as the regular fuel, it is quite hot. When the water levels drop to the point that the spent fuel is no longer being cooled, it will eventually catch fire. When that happens, we have what was mentioned in an earlier post of mine elsewhere: the mother of all dirty bombs. Even if the containment vessels of the main reactors are not breached (one likely has been breached thus far) then this reality alone would be responsible for the release of many, many tons of radioactive waste into the air & ocean. Decades worth of stored spent nuclear fuel. Please believe me, or, at the very least, check out this critical information to confirm what I am sharing here. This spent fuel fire problem is far, far worse than meltdowns of the reactor cores.

We are in for a very unpleasant ride. "

.

Worse yet: word is that reactor #3 was being fueled with an experimental fuel rod array containing plutonium. :-( According to news reports, it was being fueled with MOX, a controversial mixed oxides fuel rod, which includes, in addition to uranium, a significant amount of plutonium.

Now, what kind of idiot would put the waste pond for spend fuel right above the reactor of a nuclear plant, thus insuring that in the event of a meltdown, not only would the core of the reactor blow up into the environment, but also all of the spent fuel from prior years? Brilliant... not.

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[yank51]

Well, in the past, I always was a supporter of nuclear power. I had felt it was reasonably safe, and except in a few countries, well maintained. Seems I was wrong. I always held Japan in high regards for their technical prowess and safety. They still may be, but what has transpired, in spite of their efforts, I find appalling. I no longer believe we should be building any more nuclear power facilities, period. It's not that we can't maintain them adequately, it's just that if something does go wrong, the results are, shall we say beyond what we should be required to live with. Humans have this knack for rationalizing most everything, just to make it OK to live with, and I've just realized that I no longer wish to do that. There are a few on here who have shown that they have far greater knowledge than I on nuclear power, but no matter what they say, I am no longer listening to the "it's OK" stories, period. Explain away, the US Nuclear Energy entities have lost a supporter of theirs. I say cease and desist on ALL further nuclear power plants, and let's start some serious alternative energy sources like wind and solar. Just my 2 cents...

[kilo delta]

How many nuclear plants along the San Andreas fault line?


Edit: Looks like it's now become the worst possible scenario...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12766930


This has the potential to be the worst man made disaster of all time


The guys selflessly working at the plant are hero's,imo


Edit 2: Some eye opening footage.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12765859

[alain95]

Hello Boxcar,

I feel ashamed because that dangerous MOX comes from my country, the responsible for producing this radioactive cheese is the AREVA company ! they are based in Normandy... :redf:
I don't know who's got the idea to put the waste pond on the roof, could it be an AREVA Idea ?
France is one the main user of nuclear power in the world with 53 reactors.

I'm closely aware about recent event in the FUKUJIMA facilities by a french group who militate against nuclear power and it's civilian or military applications. It 's called "SORTIR DU NUCLEAIRE"
(Getting out of nuclear) When I started getting informations from them +/- one year ago, I felt more more sensible to those dangers. Since last Friday we live a complete nightmare.

yank51

I'm completly Ok with you, even if didn't needed the recent events for this.
The french newpapers resume the previous nuclear accidents :
- Three Mile Island 1979 : Level 5
- Tchernobyl 1986 : Level 7
- Tokaimura 1999 : Level 4
This is one more time a way to hide the truth because We had a Level 4 accident at the Tricastin facilities in 2008 !

Nuclear accidents and their consequences are the worst we can have in the history, because
they are here for a quasi Eternity, there is no more expensive price we can pay for Energy.
I hope that the politicians of my country and the other ones who employ this energy source
will definetly drive us out of this NIGHTMARE as soon as it will be possible.

I'm not a good believer but I pray for the Japan people and for those
modern time Kamikases that will cool down the reactors...

[alain95]

Radioactivity counter in Tokyo (Chiba) :

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/geiger-counter-chiba

The average value indicates 0,16 mS/h, Normal should be 0,01 mS/h

[deathfromafar]

The US NRC has deployed assessment and measurement teams into Fukushima and they officially acknowledge that there is no water being pumped into any of the reactor buildings and has not been for nearly 24 hours. Steady smoke and steam have been emitted from 3 of the 6 reactor buildings and there is indications that spent fuel in the two reactors in outage have began to overheat risking fire/explosion and containment breach of those buildings. Radiation counts have been officially listed as being at 1sv per hour inside the plant grounds with some reports of the readings being 5 to 8 times that level closer to the damaged reactors. The language being used now is pretty stark regarding the likelihood of full meltdowns and open air breaches.

I did some dose chart counts based on official reports and the numbers indicate that anyone who was within proximity of those levels continuously over the last 24 hours probably received a lethal dose. If the levels were higher, then they likely received a lethal dose much earlier.

[wiltzei]

View of Tsunami From Inside Sendai Airport

[limjack]

View of Tsunami From Inside Sendai Airport

I can't even imagine what would be going through the minds of all the souls in that airport as the wave overtakes the terminal. So sad, all I can do is shake my head in disbelief.

Jim

[phantomx1]

Anyone know where Kazunori Ito was living at in Japan?

[wombat666]

Fukuoka I believe, but that was some time ago.

Attachment 33623

[phantomx1]

Thanks for that input and posting that map wombat. Hope Ito is still down in the southern portion of Japan. It has been heartbreaking to see such immense devistation that has happened to Japan.

Hopefully soon someone in the flightsim community will recieve contact from Ito that he is ok.

[wombat666]

You are welcome phantomx1.
I hope so, that location was a few years ago but I doubt Ito-San would have moved.
As for the Japanese people, Madame Wombat MD is working with an Australian surgical team over there and is of the opinion that clean water, clean food, shelter, power and decent medical services are their primary needs.