SOH P-61 project

**italoc** · August 13th, 2010, 06:09

WOW guys, from the texts you are exchanging on this forum, you're doing a magnificent job on this
project

We all cant wait for its completion

I am not able to give you any tangible help but I am near in ..... spirit
Italo

**fliger747** · August 13th, 2010, 08:17

A little flight test with the "old one" Location, Russel Islands and off Guadalcanal.

Cheers: T

**fliger747** · August 13th, 2010, 08:26

More flying, testing indicates reduced weights are desireable for deck operations.....

T

**kilo delta** · August 13th, 2010, 08:40

Not sure if this has been posted already... P-61 site with Pilot's notes

**warchild** · August 13th, 2010, 08:50

Is It the same site as this one????

http://www.nightfighter.info/

***jankees*** · August 13th, 2010, 09:49

Originally Posted by kilo delta

Not sure if this has been posted already... P-61 site with Pilot's notes

very cool site, finally some good overall pics of the only bare metal bird:

Attachment 15365

That's one I really want to paint...

**warchild** · August 13th, 2010, 10:26

i just picked up something in chapter 8 of the link i posted above. it does give us a litle bit more of a picture of the capabilities of this bird than just the numbers can.. I'm posting it below for your perusal and discussion..

We arrived in Hsian during the afternoon and attracted some attention, since none of the personnel there had seen a Black Widow before. Prior to landing we asked the tower for permission to make a "tactical approach," and showed off a little with a low-fast approach down the runway, pulling up into a steep chandelle, dropping wheels and flaps while inverted at the top, and pulling the plane through the rest of the half-loop to a landing. It loses something in the description, but the P-61, with its super large control surfaces, could make this maneuver a real spectacular. Other planes, even our small fighters, couldn't pull it off with the same oomph

What he isnt saying in this paragraph is that the small fighters were P-51 mustangs.
technically, this plane could perform this maneuver better than a mustang, which leads me to think there were probably other things it could do as well..
The "Large Control Surfaces" he mentions must have been the elevator and rudders cuz i'm not sure how anyone could mistake those spoilers for being large, and the ailerons were nothing but fairy wings..

**warchild** · August 13th, 2010, 10:38

Its quite ineresting also that in the link with the pilot notes, that the Robert Savaria from Idaho used not only the f-15s but a P-61B as fire fighters.. Sadly, the pic is in black and white.

**fliger747** · August 13th, 2010, 10:47

Dang Seabees put the dump right at the end of the strip.... watch fro birds....

T

**fliger747** · August 13th, 2010, 10:56

Tried the above manuver, not too difficult, low pass at 270 knots, immelman, deploy gear and drag, split S to final. The only reason most fighters might have a little more difficulty with this is picking up too much speed during the split S. The nearly full span flaps are an asset here!

T

**kilo delta** · August 13th, 2010, 11:12

Originally Posted by warchild

Is It the same site as this one????

http://www.nightfighter.info/

Sorry,Pam, only just getting to see this now. Nope...it's a different site, not sure if it'll be of benefit to you guys but I came across it today whilst [LINESTRIKE]surfing[/LINESTRIKE]...errr...working...yeah...that's it....working!

**warchild** · August 13th, 2010, 11:13

:::ROFLMA: I've heard of low level interdiction runs before, but jesus!!! :::LOL:::...

**warchild** · August 13th, 2010, 11:41

Originally Posted by fliger747

Tried the above manuver, not too difficult, low pass at 270 knots, immelman, deploy gear and drag, split S to final. The only reason most fighters might have a little more difficulty with this is picking up too much speed during the split S. The nearly full span flaps are an asset here!

T

Actually, what he's describing as a chandelle, isnt. A chandelle is nothing more that a banking nose high turn. Its a very gentle turn relying mostly on rudder and elevator.; What he's describing is a bit more like an emmalman or cuban 8. And your right. It HAD to have been the flaps that got his butt on the ground.. That big of a plane thats that slick, just isnt going to want to slow down for anything without them.

Also, i believe its not the speed that makes it dramatic, but rather since he's describing the large control surface area as giving it that "oomph", i believe that the plane is acting a bit quicker to respond to inputs throughout the maneuver

**kilo delta** · August 13th, 2010, 12:11

Big flaps...

CLICK ME

**fliger747** · August 13th, 2010, 12:35

Being a long time aviator and having listened to a lot of stories over (a lot) of beers, I have a pretty good filter for this stuff. I was even actually present for the real stories sometimes, so had a baseline....

I made a little Movie of my manuver, but haven't figgured out how to make it small enough for here yet. I made a 90 degree turn during my verticle reversal which gave a little horizontal seperation for the descent and

Having a lot of fun with this, can't wait to try out your version. Mine needs a little more rudder.....

Cheers: T

**warchild** · August 13th, 2010, 13:00

I'm hoping to have a version update by mid day monday which will be the combined model made from both of our data..

A little maneuver i'm looking forward to trying that sounds a little like what he did in this example..
Fly low level the length of the runway. bank right 30 degrees and pitch the nose up thirty degrees.
keeping the nose at thirty degrees reverse your bank to 30 degrees to the left, and roll the plane to be inverted over the centerline and begin your decent. Continue the roll after dropping the gear while inverted, and upon reaching the reverse heading on the runway perform a tight split S and land..

**warchild** · August 13th, 2010, 13:02

Originally Posted by kilo delta

Sorry,Pam, only just getting to see this now. Nope...it's a different site, not sure if it'll be of benefit to you guys but I came across it today whilst [LINESTRIKE]surfing[/LINESTRIKE]...errr...working...yeah...that's it....working!

Welllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.. Techinically, you ARE working :::LOL::

**N2056** · August 13th, 2010, 15:49

Here is an experiment in putting framework in the interior...

**Cag40Navy** · August 13th, 2010, 16:37

Looking good!

***PRB*** · August 13th, 2010, 16:50

I bet it was loud sitting in that seat with a couple of Hellcats strapped to the wings! Looking real good!

**stormtrooper271** · August 13th, 2010, 16:52

Originally Posted by PRB

I bet it was loud sitting in that seat with a couple of Hellcats strapped to the wings! Looking real good!

I don't think it would be loud for very long, because after the first flight whoever was there would probably be half deaf.

Everything looks like it is coming along nicely!

**warchild** · August 13th, 2010, 17:25

Thanks Stormtrooper.. Slowly but surely

**warchild** · August 14th, 2010, 15:07

Ok.. I've had a delightful time with this today.. I married fligers FDE with my own and surprisingly, across the board, we had almost identical results in our calculations.. There were some differences though, and important ones. In places, Fligers numbers were closer, in other cases, mine were closer, so i did my best to balance everything as best as i could..
At this moment, i have too much rudder and i know it.. I'll deal with that later on. Roll rate matches the army training film, and the nausea quotient for when the wing drops during a turn seems about right.. She still takes a few minutes to reach 300 knots in level flight but shes beginning to handle and turn like a true big fighter now.. i so cant wait to dive on some ground traffic and see all those canons going off around me.. Definately the first of the dragons..

FDE 1.0 ALPHA is uploaded to the TS file browser and awaiting your downloads.. Have fun..

PS.. you'll need to set up-trim for takeoff at 125 knots with the flaps on the second step. Retract the flaps in stages between 135 knots and 150 knots.. Do not retract flaps till over a hundred feet off the ground.. Hell, make that 300 feet for the moment.. Go easy on the rudder.. think it through.. Fliger and i will make that more realistic as we go along..
file name is SoH_P-61_BlackwidowFDE-1.0_Alpha.zip..
Enjoy..
Pam

**N2056** · August 14th, 2010, 15:17

I guess I ought to try flying it! :d

Here's what I have been up to today. It's close to my final answer on the fuselage framework. I also thinned all of the canopy framework. Pic taken from the gunner's position :salute:

Attachment 15472

**warchild** · August 14th, 2010, 16:26

Originally Posted by N2056

I guess I ought to try flying it! :d

Here's what I have been up to today. It's close to my final answer on the fuselage framework. I also thinned all of the canopy framework. Pic taken from the gunner's position :salute:

Attachment 15472

suhweeeeeet

that looks good..