SOH P-61 project

[fliger747]

Getting 325 knots at sl..... thats 373 mph. Faster than a F4U-4....

[fliger747]

20,000 ft, 421 mph on 4330 hp.

T

[Whitehawk]

Managed to get a connection going long enough to get the latest stuff, WOW what a difference! Only had time for a quick flight but she is certainly more sprightly in getting off the ground. One thing I did notice was that the adverse yaw seemed to have gone? I don't know if there was any info on this but from my understanding of the system having the spoiler come up on the down-going wind should create a yawing moment towards the down-going wing which could overrule the yaw towards the up-going wing? Or does it cancel out? Sorry not sure if I'm making sense lol!

[fliger747]

A pure spoiler systems tends to be free from adverse yaw. An aileron pushing a wing up increases the lift and also increases the induced drag, tending to yaw the aircraft away from the direction of the turn. Frise ailerons which add a small amount of drag on the down wing aileron compensates this somewhat. The created adverse yaw requires the rudder to apply a bit of yaw in the direction of the turn to be "coordinated". The P-61 had a small aileron, the main function of which was to supply a bit of roll feedback through the wheel.

T

[Whitehawk]

Ok no worries not sure where I got the idea the spoiler generate a noticeable yawing force lol!

[warchild]

So this is what i get for having my computer not working for a day.. Everybody posts :chuckles:: WB Tom.. we missed ya.. .
Yes, I know what afsd is saying.. I'm ignoring it. The reason is quite simple.. afsd isnt monitoring the plane, its monitoring the data given to it by fsuipc. FSX doesnt even normally use fsuipc. So theres an unknown element in there that personally i dont trust..

Regarding speed: I have yet to see an aircraft in fsx that will do one speed at 19000 feet that it wont do at sea level.. Thats FSX.. Rated top military speed for the P-61 is 366 mph at 2700 rpm.. We get 2750 rpm and i'm not certain where that extra 50 rpm comes from.
Now, truth told, the flight model everyone else has is out of date by almost two weeks, and has been heavily worked on since..
Because its in the training film, the plane is supposed to take off without flaps at 105 mph. I've got it down to 125. Minimum maneuvering speed is 110 mph on the real plane. Truth told, you can fly ours at 100, but its a major pain in the ass to fly.. minimum maneuvering speed on ours matches that 110 mph limit for safe controllable flight..
The low speed tests i flew with PRB and others pointed up some very disturbing characteristics.. On extemely slow speed landings as were used with short field landings, the nose had a tendency to slowly pitch upwards past the desired angle during the flair, and land with her tail in the ground. That problem right there concerns me a whole lot more that too much horse power.. However.. one of the main culprits in having too much horsepower, is the turbo chharger. The P-61B didnt have one. The P-61C did. However, we have one, because without it, we're not getting the performance from the supercharger we need to get the plane to full military speed. Thats another aspect of it i've been addressing all week last week.. i want to get rid of the turbocharger, but I have to bring up the superchargers numbers slowly so that i can make sense of what they're doing, not to mention what i'm doing.. I'm one of these really weird people.. I dont go by anything that comes from a book. I go by what i learn from doing.. Its the only way i've ever learned a damned thing, and despite it being the hard way to do things, thats how i do them.. I need to learn this the hard way.. And its frikkin snowing outside.. no wonder i hurt like hell yesterday..

I agree about the rudders.. I dropped their effectiveness while working out an issue with reverse yaw. Its since been adjusted.. However, i'm shooting for a maximum yaw of 15 degrees for crosswind landings, but balancing that with a five degree yaw on engine out. We'll get there.. one step at a time...

Now, my total workload right now, is five aircraft.. One due this week, two due in a month, one due last month, one that i'm waiting on the model for... I cannot afford at this time, to focus 100% on the widow. As much as i'd like too its simply not possible. So, i will do my best to upload what I'm working on right now, in the next three or four days. Thats the best i can do i'm afraid..

[jankees]

OK, the paintshed is empty (for now), so let's see what we have here..



it's big, bad and black..





nice, very nice...

I'll see what I can do with this baby..I'll make something quick and easy first, so you guys can enjoy yourselves, and then we'll see if we can make something seriously nice for the widow, but that's more a reeeeally long term project, so bear with me......

[N2056]

Looks good!

I'm working on getting the rest of the external bits mapped. I'm finding that for my rig the model is getting to a point where memory is an issue during export. During the last couple of days I have been learning ways to get around that, and for now at least I am back to work.

[warchild]

Jankees, that looks awesome.. I'm lovin it ..
No worries on the time frame, and my sincere apologies to everyone that i wasnt on teamspeak last night.. yesterday afternoon, my system hung on a blue screen in the middle of a converstion with David brice. Odd thing is, the blue screen gave us little to go on besides a hardware error.. After the spike on monday, i thought it might be memory, especially when i couldnt boot into either windows 7 or vista, So at first i simply moved memory around and then removed half of it..
Removing the memory allowed me to boot far enough into windows 7 to see a little prograam icon for a wireless network pop up on the task bar before the machine locked up.. After rebooting into safe mode, i checked the event logs and discovered a service running with a rather od name like jxwczke.exe, and whata ya know. it was located in my netgear directory.. Needless to say, not only that file, but the entire wireles directory is now gone, and i seem to be running fine. But theres still only four gigs of ram in this thing, and i now dont know if any of it is really bad, or if that weird program caused all the problems.. I'll try popping the ram back in after i wake up ( took till 4 AM to get everything figured out ) and we'll see what happens..

[jankees]

Pam, that was your own paint..

Here's 30 minutes work:

[warchild]

::blush:: Well now dont i feel all silly n **** :::lol:: i didnt think it was mine cuz the lines are straight.. What i might do ( seeing as we have the time ) is research each of the paints you and others do, and put together a pdf booklet of the planes and crews; their locations and records ( if i can find them ).. It'll give the folks a little something extra .. Many of the crews i can get photo's of to go along with their stories. Just a thought..

On a more serious note, my memory problem turned out to not be a memory problem at all.. The entire underlying structure to windows 7 was corrupted and so, i had to do a complete reinstall of the operating system today.. I should have teamspeak up and running by tomorrow afternoon, but fsx will take a wee bit longer to get back up to speed.. Bear with me..

Pam

[warchild]

This FDE addresses a great many things revolving around speed and pitch. it isnt perfect but it moves us one step closer to our goal.. Its a small stip but i hope you enjoy it.. Download it from the teamspeak file browser..
Pam

[OleBoy]

To all involved in the project;
...I think my latest findings will fill a gap for us.

Have a look in the file browser for a text file named P-61 Research By OleBoy

[warchild]

Good work oleboy..
I am still struggling with a dieing power supply.. I can only hope it lasts till the beginning of the next month when i can afford to replace it.. At the moment all my usb devices except for my keyboard and mouse are turning on and off about once every three seconds, and i can either unplug usb or unplug a hard drive and each morning it seems to be a little worse.. I've got my eyes on a couple of good ones, both 800 watts, although i'm also considering going up to a thousand watts as soon i'll want to throw in another one and a half terrabyte drive and a second gtx260.

For working on the Lady and other projects, i pull a hard drive so i can use my joystick, and have made a little progress, but havent dared to do anything on my other payed projects ( the boat floats, barely at the moment, so i dont trust it to do anything too heavy ).

Going by Fligers reports, as well as something he and i noticed some time ago wherein FSX was actually measuring one value in reverse, and reading the wrong rpm ( prop instead of engine ) i did some research on turbochargers and superchargers. In this, i learned that a typical two stage-two speed mechanical supercharger will deliver upwards of an extra 400 horsepower to the output of an engine. Now, oddly, afsd has been reporting that each of our engines was developing 4000 hp in the engine, while the hp rating at the prop was just a little over 2700. So, seeing as our widow had been using both a turbocharger and a supercharger, when it should only have a supercharger, i ripped out the turbochatger and made a call to a friend of mine who builds race cars.. We sat down for about four hours yesterday trying to dial in that supercharger. he was rather amazed at the likeness between the physics from reality to fsx and actually enjoyed himself, but , every formula we entered only slowed the plane down more.. We went high pressure and we went low presssure, but nothing worked.. In the end, i eliminated the supercharger and pit the turbocharger back in. At least with the turbocharger were getting the correct hp and the correct speed range. I'm not finished with the supercharger yet though. Superchargers are finicky at best and i admit to not fully understanding them, so, i'll rectify that. Since my computer is flaky at best at the moment, it gives me an opportunity to do research and learn a little something..

I'll continue as best i can on development, but with my machine being half crippled i'm not going to be able to go full bore on anything till the beginning or middle of december.. bear with me and stay tuned..

Pam..

[warchild]

ok, latest update....
i yanked the turbocharger and put the supercharger back in, made some changes elsewhere in the flight model and kick started fsx.. the lady is now seeing about 360 mph with full military power, but she's also developing 3175 hp. Now I admit i'm not an aircraft mechanic, but i pulled my first 327 chevy engine at the age of 12 and my brother ( my main family competition ) was a professor of mechanics at the university of chicago for some time, and i learned early on that if you run an engine full out all the time, it dies real fast. That got me wondering if that 2250 hp the engine is rated for isnt the continuous rated horsepower and full military power doesnt throw the hp up to a higher rating for short term bursts.. I dont know. I need some opinions.. please feel free to jump in with what you know..
Pam

[padburgess]

Warchild

First I am not an engine mechanic or mechanical engineer, although I have worked around airforce planes for 20 years and have an ongoing passion that means I have dozens of reference books. All my (limited) knowledge and reference material points to the "rated horsepower" being the Takeoff power. That is the time limited absolute max power available. The max continuous power is listed as about 80% of that.
Example DB601A max power (takeoff) 1100hp @ 2400rpm for 1 minute. Max sea level power 990hp @ 2400rpm 5 minutes, max continuous power at sea level 910hp at 2300rpm for 30 mins, max cruising power at sea level 880hp @ 2200rpm.
For altitude these numbers become max TO 1020 @ 2400-2600rpm for 5mins at 14,764ft, max continuous power 960hp @ 2400rpm at 16,404ft and max cruise 840hp @ 2400rpm at 18,700ft.
So for what it is worth I believe the max power should be 2250hp for a timed period.
Others may have more intimate knowledge of aero engine specifications. However I think you may also run into the specmanship games that companies play when stating things that competitors and customers view.

Regards
Paul
PS keep up the brilliant work. Remember sleep is a luxury not a necessity.

[warchild]

Thanks Padburgess. Thats kinda what i expected, but you cant blame a girl for hoping :;chuckles::..

[crashaz]

Work looking great! My apologies for forced absence.... I lost all my utilties there for awhile due to tough time finding work. Still not back to where I can be relied on as I still have no internet or phone. Working a very small contract and was able to log on from customer's site this one time to pay my respects.


I feel bad for sticking you all with the work but things were beyond my control.

One of these days I will make it up to the community... until then I am going to stay in my foxhole. My luck can't stay this bad for that much longer LOL!!

Keep up the good work.:salute:

[N2056]

James, you have no idea how good it is to know you are still out there!
No worries on how things happened. I had a feeling that it was something you had no control over. I'm sorry things are not going so well for you right now...stay tough and keep charging!

[warchild]

Crashaz, you scared the **** outta all of us.. cant tell you how relieved i am your ok.. Take care of what you need to do.. We'l be here, always..
Pam

PS.. when you get your internet back, theres still plenty to do.. Coordinate with Robert when you are able. Till then, no worries.. Take care of yourself and your life and know we're all behind you as best we can be.. welcome home

[N2056]

I've been doing a lot of refinement on the nose gear...:salute:

Attachment 23812 Attachment 23814 Attachment 23813

[txnetcop]

I've been doing a lot of refinement on the nose gear...:salute:

Attachment 23812 Attachment 23814 Attachment 23813

Yes you have and may I say it looks STELLAR!!! I just slobbered all over my keyboard again...LOL
Ted

[N2056]

Yesterday OleBoy noted that the landing light in the wing appeared to be located in the wrong place while he was studying line drawings and looking at the mesh with an eye towered adding panel lines to the wing textures. I did the needed mesh surgery, and then I started playing with panel lines...

Attachment 23952

[thunder100]

ok, latest update....
i yanked the turbocharger and put the supercharger back in, made some changes elsewhere in the flight model and kick started fsx.. the lady is now seeing about 360 mph with full military power, but she's also developing 3175 hp. Now I admit i'm not an aircraft mechanic, but i pulled my first 327 chevy engine at the age of 12 and my brother ( my main family competition ) was a professor of mechanics at the university of chicago for some time, and i learned early on that if you run an engine full out all the time, it dies real fast. That got me wondering if that 2250 hp the engine is rated for isnt the continuous rated horsepower and full military power doesnt throw the hp up to a higher rating for short term bursts.. I dont know. I need some opinions.. please feel free to jump in with what you know..
Pam

Dear Pam

I was the FDE guy on some of Manfred Jahn's Connies.If you explain the problem a bit better (when ;altitude etc) and send me the files(aircraft.cfg;Air file,documentation) I can try to look in it.No guarantee though

Roland

[Daveroo]

why is this taking so long? youve been at it for months...why isnt it done..sheeesh yall are slow








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