SOH P-61 project

[warchild]

Tom?? Can you get me a rate of climb chart for the Lady?? I need to know its clean rate of climb as opposed to full flaps rate of climb.
Thanks
Pam

[PRB]

What about this. It's from America's Hunnerd Thousand, same book Tom has...

[warchild]

Thats exactly what i need thanks Paul ..

[TeiscoDelRay]

I built one of these years ago for the Flighter Squadron sim and remember the awsome fire power. Just get behind someone and pull the trigger and there gone, lol.

Is there a beta to try?

[fliger747]

Thanks Paul:

That's the chart. I will be away from books, home and flight test for a while, on a trip to visit my son in Wyoming.

A lot of good info and comparative data in Hunner't thou.

T

[TeiscoDelRay]

Opps, guess I am not a member of the club.

[warchild]

::Chuckles:: one more day ( I hope ) till i get my social security ). Definately getting a copy of that book then..
On a sadder note. yesterday morning or the night before, i was hit by a virus that made it impossible for me to even boot the machine. I'm limping at this point, but files are scattered across the entire computer and the explorer interface windows do not work. in short, its going to take a full install to get me running again.. I cant tell if i've lost anything or not yet, but i dont believe i have.
Please give me a day or two to get back into action and i'll get back on the Lady.
Love you guys. please bear with me..
Pam

[warchild]

Ray, there is no club.. I wasnt able to log on at all to respond yesterday ( see above :;chuckles:
The bottom line truth of the matter is that we aint nowhere near beta at this point.. Please bear with us.. once we get to beta, your set.. Right now though, everything that exists has been photographed and placed in this thread. As you can see, it isnt much yet.. bear with us and be patient and i'll make sure your on the team..
Pam

[warchild]

Just a quick update..
My computer is about three quarters back to functioning.. I was able to save my email ( and the flight 1 licenses there ) but fsx will need to be reinstalled as will TS.. bear with me. i hopoe to be back to work by monday..
Pam

[fliger747]

Pam

Glad you are feeling better! On the prop, test it again at high speed and in the dive. At speed you need a very high propeller advance ratio. As to any angle specified in a prop spec, the important factor is where the angle is measured. I have no faith that prop manufacturers and MS measure it atthe same point along the prop blade. There will also be a variation in the amount of curvature change along the blade.

Cheers from Missoula! Tom

[warchild]

Missoula?? :;chuckles:: you watch out for them cowgirls up there.. . Thats gorgeous country out that way. Passed through it a few times when i was younger and had a thumb for a ticket..
Thanks for the wakeup call on the prop pitch. I'll be starting the reinstall of fsx today at some point and check out the props as soon as its running again..If your not seeing the speed she should be seeing, my guess is that its the drag. I more than trippled it so the plane could actually slow down in something less than fourty miles of gliding.. ( wwell, ok, fourty miles may be an exaggeration ).. The way the props are set now, using the original drag, i was able to get the plane over 450 mph in level flight without mil power or wep..
Perhaps its lame, but i've got to trust curtiss on the pitch rotation. Curtiss uses degrees, microsoft uses degrees. Curtiss says its got 30 degrees of arc between its minimum and maximum values. Since the shape of the prop itself is a fixed shape ( due to it being steel ) then thirty degrees is thirty degrees along the entirety of the blade. Sad thing is is that the only fighter i know of that used this prop was the P-47, and i havent built one of those.. The P-36 and P-40 whuch i have builr, both used curtiss electric props, but they werent paddle style. They also had a greater pitch range, but favored the lower end with more of a flat profile at the lower end of the range. probably because some engineer was worried that a higher profile would drag the plane down the runway at idle.. Personally, i think it went a long way to making those two planes obsolete before they even went to war. Rare Bear's team realized that and ditched the normal propeller, exchanging it for a prop from a P-3 Orion. The competition between them and Strega has been a matter of legend ever since. Really, those two planes should be side by side in a museum. No one can come close, and no one can beat them. They so fantastically outclass anything else out there that they're all alone.. Kinda sad.. ..
Anywayy, off to make more installs.. gonna get teamspeak up and running first.. I miss you guys.. Miss talking..
Pam

[PRB]

Rgr on Missoula and that entire region. I had the chance to drive through there during my "big move" from St. Louis to the Seattle (area). Fantastic country.

Good luck with the computer repairs, Pam. Had to go through a bit of that myself over the summer. Back when computers were a hobby, that was fun. Now they're just another tool that, when busted, is a bit of a hassle!

On the big book America's Hundred Thousand, I think that book is available in e-book version, which, in addition to being cheaper than the ten pound paper version, is also searchable, and "copy-and-paste-pics-able", nice for sharing data on computer forums...

[warchild]

Thanks Paul//
Turns out ast night wasn payday after all.. tonight is. SOOO, come midnight, AHT and a ch throttle are getting ordered.. Didnt know there was an e book of AHT so I'll have to take a look for that..

Got FSX reinstalled as well as accel.. Copying over aircraft and scenery now from the old directory then tomorrow install rex gex and utx, as well as a few others.. ..

[N2056]

I got the props animated and painted up a bit. I also have been working on a better start-up animation sequence so that the engine spins up a little slower before the blurred texture kicks in. Looking at this pic I guess I ought to look at texturing the engines...

One important thing...right now I am using the Howard prop texture that Banana Bob made, and unless I am able to contact him and get the okay to use them in the final release they may have to be changed. Anyone heard from him since his last post about a month ago?

Attachment 20358

[warchild]

Ok, so here's what i'm seeing in a dive from 30000 feet at this exact moment ( befire i forget it all )
Manifold pressure dropped to 33 inches on the way up. RPM's remained at 2700 throughout the climb and dive, which seemed odd to me but, oh well.. Guess we have a good governor or something..
Dive angle was 87 degrees.
Maximum speed achieved during dive was 550 mph. At 530 i attempted to recover from the dive, and although there was buffeting, the plane was lost as compressibility took over and i dug a hole half way to china in the desert floor.
Maximum speed in level powered flight without a dive was 340 mph.
Roll rate ( aileron only ) about 40 degrees per second. with rudder its slightly faster.
climb rate was 2000 fpm at 255 mph, dropping to 220 mph above 18000 feet..

[N2056]

I ended up doing a new engine...still a few things to add, but so far I am happy with it.

Attachment 20364

[modelr]

Rare Bear's team realized that and ditched the normal propeller, exchanging it for a prop from a P-3 Orion. The competition between them and Strega has been a matter of legend ever since. Really, those two planes should be side by side in a museum. No one can come close, and no one can beat them. They so fantastically outclass anything else out there that they're all alone.. Kinda sad.. ..
Miss talking..
Pam

Hi all, been outta touch 'cause of computer problems too. DSL Modem went bottoms up.

Anyway, Pam, there was one more P-51 in that battle at Reno. It actually won more times during the pitched battle between the Merlins and the round engines. Dago Red...

I'm really learning a lot listening in here. You don't know how much some of us really appreciate seeing how this is done. Also helps to explain the time it takes to get it right. Hopefully some others are understanding that. Keep up the good work.

[OleBoy]

Interesting reading.
....sorry to intrude.

[warchild]

Interesting reading.
....sorry to intrude.

:0 Your never an intrussion.. welcome to the thread

[warchild]

Hi all, been outta touch 'cause of computer problems too. DSL Modem went bottoms up.

Anyway, Pam, there was one more P-51 in that battle at Reno. It actually won more times during the pitched battle between the Merlins and the round engines. Dago Red...

I'm really learning a lot listening in here. You don't know how much some of us really appreciate seeing how this is done. Also helps to explain the time it takes to get it right. Hopefully some others are understanding that. Keep up the good work.

Now that you mention him, I remember Dago red.. But my perception of him wad that he was out to win races.. Strega and Rare Beare went after the world speed record, and taking the title back from each other..
Isnt Dago red in a museuom somewhere now or is it astill racing?/ i kinda got out of touch..

[warchild]

You know whats really funny, at least for the part of me thats sitting outside myself watching this whole thing, is that, I fly this plane and its frikkin beautiful, and yet, every time i make an adjustment, i get more and more terified people are going to hate it, because:
With every other plane i've made, i've made them for someone else. i purposely made them easier to fly than the real thing. That was due to time constraints, and the target maket for those planes. This time, its different. There's no time constraints, and theres no specific target market for ut euther, and i view the whole project as my tume to make good on everything i've been saying the last four years. All the numbers i began with on this plane are true and accurate to the real life plane. all the research i've been doing is true and accurate to the real life plane, and all the corrections i make to it bring it closer and closer to performing accurately to the real life plane. MAAM will have their P-61 flying in a couple years or so, and i'm hoping i'm around for that. I'm also terrified that this white gold tower of accuracy i believe in so much is going to crumble like dust when the video is released. I'm terrified that in my cautious pomposity, inflexibility, unyielding demands and my relentless pursuit to make myself do better all the time; that i will be able to provide to you the absolute best flying and most accurate aircraft ever seen in the history of flight sim. And it terrifies me that i may let you all down. Theres no third party company to go through. No Iris, or Razbam or Vertigo or Lionheart. This time, the buck stops abruptly with me, and i've never done this before in my life.. The project was started by Michael Davies in 2007. In 2008 Fliger and a few others tried their best to get the project rolling. Now its a JFTC project, along with some very respected and esteemed associates. Michael Davies, Fliger747, N2056, Cag40Navy, Jankees, Butch, and Crashaz wherever he may be at the moment.
I know your all going to love flying this plane, but its still kinda scary..
pam

[Smudge]

Hi Guys.

I've chatted to Pam and would like to help out on this project if I can, either by doing audio or maybe helping out on modelling... If someone can PM me that'd be cool..

DB.

[warchild]

Fannntastic...
I sent David a PM this morning welcoming him to the project. Robert?? Seeing as Sounds and special effects are of tertiary importance at this moment, whay dont you and David get together on the modeling.. Your area is without a doubt the most detailed area of the entire plane, so maybe you two can work something out .. You'll find David to be an awesome person and a totally decen chap to talk too.. I've been working with him for four years now, whuch is longer than i've been able to work with almost anyone else except delta558. That says a lot actually, mostly about me ::LOL::..
I've given David the teamspeak addy and channel password so everything should be good to go there. Just a matter of you two coordinating ..

To everyone else.. I dont know if you understand my position. I get to watch these guys do their magic, and frankly, i've been awe struck. I've known from the beginning that with this team, we could build an exceptional model. With David joining the team, i feel that exceptional, is only the beginning.
to coin my own phrase from a long time ago: Stay tuned. Things just got a whole lot more exciting ..
Pam

[modelr]

Now that you mention him, I remember Dago red.. But my perception of him wad that he was out to win races.. Strega and Rare Beare went after the world speed record, and taking the title back from each other..
Isnt Dago red in a museuom somewhere now or is it astill racing?/ i kinda got out of touch..

Actually, in the time line, Rare Bear is the oldest of the three, Only recently sold. Dago Red won it's first race in competition, in the mid 80's, I think. Strega is a couple years newer. Dago Red held the world's speed record for quite awhile. It was recently sold, also. New owner vowed it would remain a racer, not returned to stock configuration, as of sale date. Strega was retired for a few years. Came out of retirement to win in '08, I think.

Unfortunately, some of the best video shorts were lost from the late 80's early 90's, showing all three in qualitying a races. The sound of each one was individually unmistakable and downright AWESOME! Especially when they made a pass with full nitrous turned on. Would curl the hair on the back of your neck.

There were only a couple years when all three would be able to make it to the start of, and even fewer times when all three would finish the Gold Final. Each of them have won. '08 was the last one all three qualified in. This year, 2010, the race was called before engine start due to excessive and unsafe wind conditions. Strega won by default as it was fastest qualifier, flown by Steve Hinton, jr. As an aside, Big Bossman, the F7F Tigercat, was in the Gold.

Hope we aren't highjacking the thread answering this. Sorry.

[modelr]

You know whats really funny, at least for the part of me thats sitting outside myself watching this whole thing, is that, I fly this plane and its frikkin beautiful, and yet, every time i make an adjustment, i get more and more terified people are going to hate it, because:
With every other plane i've made, i've made them for someone else. i purposely made them easier to fly than the real thing. That was due to time constraints, and the target maket for those planes. This time, its different. There's no time constraints, and theres no specific target market for ut euther, and i view the whole project as my tume to make good on everything i've been saying the last four years. All the numbers i began with on this plane are true and accurate to the real life plane. all the research i've been doing is true and accurate to the real life plane, and all the corrections i make to it bring it closer and closer to performing accurately to the real life plane. MAAM will have their P-61 flying in a couple years or so, and i'm hoping i'm around for that. I'm also terrified that this white gold tower of accuracy i believe in so much is going to crumble like dust when the video is released. I'm terrified that in my cautious pomposity, inflexibility, unyielding demands and my relentless pursuit to make myself do better all the time; that i will be able to provide to you the absolute best flying and most accurate aircraft ever seen in the history of flight sim. And it terrifies me that i may let you all down. Theres no third party company to go through. No Iris, or Razbam or Vertigo or Lionheart. This time, the buck stops abruptly with me, and i've never done this before in my life.. The project was started by Michael Davies in 2007. In 2008 Fliger and a few others tried their best to get the project rolling. Now its a JFTC project, along with some very respected and esteemed associates. Michael Davies, Fliger747, N2056, Cag40Navy, Jankees, Butch, and Crashaz wherever he may be at the moment.
I know your all going to love flying this plane, but its still kinda scary..
pam

Pam, I personnally think you will be the proudest one here, when all is said and done, because, finally, no one will be able to say "It doesn't fly like a P-61 should." And we will all be right here to say "Says who?!!!" We've all heard that complaint, ad nauseum, before. I even said it once about Tom's first attempt on Ito-San's P-61, before I knew better. (After his explanations on my complaints, and showing me/us the numbers, I retracted my statement, which was based on my experience flying an R/C scale model.) Really looking forward to this one.