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  1. #301
    SOH-CM-2021 warchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohan View Post
    Pam,
    I'm not sure whether this was just a mistype, but I think my elementary physics taught me that acceleration due to Earth's gravity was around 32 ft / sec / sec ...

    Hope that helps,
    Ro
    err ummm.. did i mention i was dyslexic??? :;blush:: sorry, your correct.. my brain transposed the numbers.. it wasnt a typo, just a thinking error..

  2. #302
    SOH-CM-2021 warchild's Avatar
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    Was just thinking.. The radar on board gave you five miles if visibility. Not much compared to todays standards, but plenty to let you take action, and if you could get an opponent into a turning fight, you could pretty much own him.. Also, using rudders would increase the roll rate. I dont know if that would increase its survivability against an FW190 or a zero, but it would certainly help to even the odds with a lot of other planes.

  3. #303
    SOH-CM-2021 warchild's Avatar
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    The CL variables for the flaps are much better.. Its still not dropping quite enough but that can be changed by raising the airspeed weight factor..
    I had to raise the prop MOI to 489 slugs because anything below 250 slugs and the engine dies. 489 propels us through 310 mph and gives us a good climb rate..

  4. #304
    That's the flight manual I have.
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  5. #305
    The engines only die on startup without a bit of throttle, idle them for a short bit at 1000 RPM like you are supposed to (preventing plug fouling) and then thery idle just fine down to 600 RPM or so. Several other ways to do this include changing the shape of the shaft friction vrs RPM table (509) or the mechanical friction at low RPM scalar in the .cfg file.

    I think the way they were setup is about right as one needed to feed a bit more throttle to these engines on initial start till they warmed a bit and the mixture settled down, especially as they were started on prime.

    Just back from a very long flight Dubai, Frnakfurt, Dubai. Sun is up and another scorcher in the offing!

    Cheers: T

    This table is 509, controls internal friction vrs RPM, can be used to tune the engine HP somewhat along the power curve.

  6. #306
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    I like the idea: A LOT.. This is definaterly one of those planes that you really need to have a relationship wit to fully appreciate her.. But the wall i'm running into on my system is that the sim is loading in with dead engines.. The 489 slugs also was taken from my calculations of the MOI for the prop, so i chose to use it.. Indeed, i love having to know a bit of what i'm doing in the cockpit, or a car or anything I drive, but we cant unleash a product on the public that starts with the engines not running.
    We may need a systems engineer to work with us on this, but, maybe we can calculate out the real world MOI for the prop ( in case i made an error ) and reverse engineer the rest of the drive train back through each part to make it perform realistically as we would like for it too??? i know its extra work, but with as far as youve gotten with the FDE this last week, we're way ahead of the others, and i'll be free for a few days very very soon so i can jump in with you on that..
    If you and i can keep finding ways to use the differences we have between us and capitalize on those, i know were gonna be able to built a fantastic plane.. I know its not easy, we're both classic type A personalities, but so far: my gods just look where we're at..

    PS.. Glad you made it home safe You must be exhasted.. Hope you get some down time and some rest..

  7. #307
    No... Still in Dubai, heading over to Shanghai in the AM, another day and then home for a short bit.

    BTW the engines start and keep running fine if you give them a bit of throttle for warmup, just like the real deal. The other way to do this is to reduce the internal friction at idle a bit. I can do this but it is possible to end up with the SP2 guys with an engine that turns after shutdown. Not all FSX is created the same.

    I am sure this will turn out quite well. Might be able to get to load the current model when I get to ZSPD (Shanghai).

    Cheers: T

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by fliger747 View Post
    No... Still in Dubai, heading over to Shanghai in the AM, another day and then home for a short bit.

    BTW the engines start and keep running fine if you give them a bit of throttle for warmup, just like the real deal. The other way to do this is to reduce the internal friction at idle a bit. I can do this but it is possible to end up with the SP2 guys with an engine that turns after shutdown. Not all FSX is created the same.

    I am sure this will turn out quite well. Might be able to get to load the current model when I get to ZSPD (Shanghai).

    Cheers: T
    Current model has no animations.. We're waiting on input from crashaz. it'd probably be best to hang on for a bit before downloading the latest version because of the lack of animations..

    The thing with starting it up though, is that no one should have to start it if they dont want too. If they want too, thats another thing, but with accel it doesnt start, and i'm afraid that 89 slugs is just not realistic either..
    Forgive me, i'm in a lot of pain today and its distracting and tiring, lets make this thing, but lets make it right.. your so close as is. its just a matter of adjusting values.. we can do this, and its worth the risks.. I mean, so what if we hit a roadblock and have to find our way around it??

    As for SP2, i'm aware of that, but i'm willing to risk it. I'm running accel myself, which is different than Sp2 as you know, but we can work with it.. If the problem arises for them, then we'll have a copy of this config we can use in creating a fix specific to them..

  9. #309
    Interesting as it is already running when I load.... and stays running. The only issue I have is starting cold that it needs a bit of throttle, could try increasing the minimum MP. I will experiment a bit with this.

    Cheers: T

  10. #310
    I changed the min MP from 9 to 10 and reduced the low RPM cyl friction (tbl 509) and they stay running without advancing the throttle..... Will experiment a bit more with this.

    T

  11. #311
    Meanwhile at the instrument panel...
    Can someone tell me if the needle on this compass should be magnetic or gyro driven?

    Attachment 16510

  12. #312
    Still fiddling but it "works". The propeller MOI shouldn't be too important as mostly it affects the rate of rpm change, speed of engine start and wind down (opposing internal starter torque and internal friction). Does not really affect thrust values too much as they hide in the prop tables.

    Very small adjustments affect the idle value and whether or not the engine keeps running. This is of course all for Accel.

    Blasting off for Shanghai soon, so probably not time to "jet" you a new FDE.

    Cheers: T

  13. #313
    Not the final word, but generally the early RMI compass cards repeated a remote compass, but the heading on the rotating card was set with the knob to a desired value and did not automatically reflect the heading of the aircraft. I might have some ancient WWII pilot training manuals that could shed the light on this setup, but of course they are at home and I am still about 12 time zones away.

    There might be some folks here who do have the info at their fingertips, or can find it sooner!

    Looking good: T

  14. #314
    I'm pretty certain it's not magnetic...but then wouldn't it be susceptible to drift? I can't find a whiskey compass anywhere in the real plane that you could compare it to

  15. #315
    Probably used a remote flux gate and was slaved to that, but yet there should be a whisky compass somewhere. Can't have a directly magnetic verticle needle.....

    Keep up the great work! t

  16. #316
    Senior Administrator PRB's Avatar
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    The B-25, and many WW-II US planes had a similar gauge. Here's what the MAAM B-25 manual says about it:

    "This instrument may be familiar to you, if you fly some of the CFS aircraft, as it was a fairly common WW2 instrument. It features a heading indicator that serves the same purpose as the heading bug on a modern light plane's his. The knob is used to set the point of the heading indicator (double-lines) on the intended heading, then the plane is steered to bring the compass needle between the parallel lines, and keep them lined up. This is a magnetic compass, unlike the Directional Gyro (DG), shown below, which is driven by a gyroscope. It is called a "remote reading indicator" because the actual compass is located in another location, away from this instrument."
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  17. #317
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    whemm i started working out the numbers on mine, i found that 14 pounds was the minimum i could use to keep the engines running, even with the friction scalars reduced..

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by fliger747 View Post
    Still fiddling but it "works". The propeller MOI shouldn't be too important as mostly it affects the rate of rpm change, speed of engine start and wind down (opposing internal starter torque and internal friction). Does not really affect thrust values too much as they hide in the prop tables.

    Very small adjustments affect the idle value and whether or not the engine keeps running. This is of course all for Accel.

    Blasting off for Shanghai soon, so probably not time to "jet" you a new FDE.

    Cheers: T
    Thats what i used to think until i built the C-27.. there the moi has a major effect on peed. Dont ask me why, i dont know, but it did..
    I think its just that, so many other people are putting in everything they have to make this plane correct, i wanna make sure we do too..
    i can do the extra work during beta testing when we get there. i dont mind..

    Idle adjustments i fully understand. I tried using AAM to adjust a wings lift curve and ended up destroying a flight model, forcing me to roll back to the previous version.. Accel is touchier than a psycho.
    Hope your flight into Shanghai is safe and boring..
    Pam

  19. #319
    Try This, minor adjustments to the friction curve, min MP and prop tc. This is a pretty well used interpretation of the R-2800 I have used in various Corsairs, A-26, P-47, etc. that I have worked on. Should be getting close. What may be fun is beta testing with the various versions of FSX. Some developers have added the caution for instance that a particular plane works best with say Accel, which I think will eventually be the standard.

  20. #320
    The C-27, being a turboprop probably does have some MOI efects, the direct (geared) drive R-2800 probably does not. Pretty different setups. There is often a very loose and rubbery relation between the N1 (gas generator) and prop RPM's. Often the actual prop RPM's are some hidden value, not even revealed directly in the cockpit instrumentation. Some % of gas generator RPM, a turbine temp of some sort, a torque value and tha's often about it.

    Off to Shanghai! T

  21. #321
    SOH-CM-2021 warchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fliger747 View Post
    Try This, minor adjustments to the friction curve, min MP and prop tc. This is a pretty well used interpretation of the R-2800 I have used in various Corsairs, A-26, P-47, etc. that I have worked on. Should be getting close. What may be fun is beta testing with the various versions of FSX. Some developers have added the caution for instance that a particular plane works best with say Accel, which I think will eventually be the standard.
    Sounds like a plan ( including that warning with the aircraft ) I'll also make a backup copy of the flight model as it is now for those that have Sp2. We can keep updating the copy as needed with the other changes that dont effect the engines and be able to offer a full model to everyine that will work on all FSX platforms..

  22. #322
    SOH-CM-2021 warchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fliger747 View Post
    The C-27, being a turboprop probably does have some MOI efects, the direct (geared) drive R-2800 probably does not. Pretty different setups. There is often a very loose and rubbery relation between the N1 (gas generator) and prop RPM's. Often the actual prop RPM's are some hidden value, not even revealed directly in the cockpit instrumentation. Some % of gas generator RPM, a turbine temp of some sort, a torque value and tha's often about it.

    Off to Shanghai! T
    may the winds be favorable on your flight..

    I was very fortunate to get all the critical numbers for the C-27 including prop rpm, so,, i was able to dial it in real close, but FSX limitations imposed their way into it and i had to call in JohnC as an adviser. The MOi for that prop is also over 400, but the engine wont spin it, so I cut it back some to a more usable value. I'm an idealist however, so i'm still not particularly thrilled.

  23. #323
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    Hey Tom..Know you wont get this till you reach Shanghai and gotten some rest, but just took the FDE above up for a test drive. its outstanding.. flat out, unquestionably, out standing.. Thank you..
    I'll clean up the contact points but outside of that at the moment, we mainly only have to tighten up the pitch trim and we can move on to temps and pressures ( which with the way you have her running are most likely where they need to be)..

  24. #324
    In the Emirates Lounge on WIFI... Sipping scotch.... Pax this leg.

    The prop MOI I am using fro the F7F (three blades) is about 40 or so. Experimenting with a value around 55. I have most of my planes on the "Main Frame" at home, so can't compare to what seemed to work for the P-47 (D and J) and the F4U-4 which all had 4 blade props.

    Probably won't get much done till I get home as Shanghai is planned for min rest.

    Haven't gotten around to tweaking the Mach drag as yet to bring the speed at altitude into line as yet. Not much point till we get the engines pretty well firmed up. Note that just as with the real plane, the IAS cannot be used to compute TAS unless you correct for error. Using the AFSD aerodynamics tab for TAS values.

    Fun to watch a R2800 crank up, get to see that often in Anhorage, cranks slowly , about 13 blades (three blader) before the mags are switched on, and then watch it cough to life. FS spins it too fast and it catches immediatly, don' know of any way around that, yet... T

  25. #325
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    got the contacts, static pitch and static Cg height fixed.. tightening up the trim now.. I moved the Cg 0.5 inch towards the rear. test flights concluded that the Cg was between 0.5 and 1.0 inches too far forward.. not picking nits. it just makes it far easier for the plane to remain trim if i can find the exact location for the CG.. I'll upload this as soon as i'm satisfied with the results of my changes..

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