SOH P-61 project

[MudMarine]

My 1/2 cents (don't have enough cents to make two). 2d panels are a waste of time! JMO

[txnetcop]

Hiya Ted, Welcome back
Thanks for the input. With all the input on it, theres a lot to consider and think about.. i trust what you and Fliger said about the engine liking WEP, and air, and intercoolers, and anything that helped keep the heat down. They're 18 cylinder monsters. Pure iron. Its not the coolest running material in the world, so anything that would cool them down was much loved by them..
I know the p-61 had water meth tanks on thm, but what i dont know is how much they carried. Still, I'm inclined to use reality here. You have so much water/meth to use, you can use it when you need it, but when its gone, its gone.. At that point, if we dont throttle back below 95% the engine overheats and seizes up.. How long to give it before it seizes up is a question that will have to be researched. That plane in africa mentioned earlier could have been sitting with engines running for up to 5 minutes ( the length of time a B-17 has before it begins to have troubles ) But sitting on a tarmac is not running at full power. Taking into account the number of hours on the engine as Paul suggested, may at this point be a good idea. The newer the engine, the longer its ability to handle extremes.. and maybe we can create a curve based on that which can be used to seize the engines.. Hope i'm making sense.. its 4:30Am and pretty far past my bedtime so i know i'm rambling a bit here.. however, what im thinking would give us a more realistic result than just setting a 90 second time limit on it, and add a bit of randomness to the scenario..

I was going to wait to ask for this but i can see that waiting would be foolish as theres so much to do. At this time, N2056 is building the VC and gunnery position, but theres so much to be modeled in there that to ask any more of him would be sadistic at best.. That means, we dont have anyone coding for us.. We need a coder, a gauge guru, and with all the gauges in this thing, we need one soon. We need SOH's help and skill there..
We're also going to be needing an effects guru. The P-61 carried four 20mmk canon and four 50cal canon, and it was easily the most devestating fighter of world war two. The combined fire power on this plane when unleased may very well qualify it as americas first gunship. The original Dragon. I'd like someone who could reate the effects of that armament with tracers visible for some time.

I was asked recently how soon the plane could be done. i didnt have an answer, but there's a round the world race coming next febuary and mid december is the date for entrance. Providing the rules allow, this could be a good plane for that race. it may not be as fast as others, but its range would even out the difference as it wouldnt have to refuel as often.. I wouldnt mind seeing her in that race to be honest, and with a three man crew, non stop is a possibility.
Anywayy, i'm rambling and i'm sorry, but please folks, if you can code and enjoy it, please let us know.. we need your help..
Thanks
Pam

Pam I have been trying to find out. The best I know would be to call Mid Atlantic Air Museum and ask them. They have one almost totally restored. I'm trying to get an 800 number maybe Jarvis knows it. Otherwise use your best guess. None of us are gonna complain we have been P-61 starved in FSX!

[stansdds]

P-61A and early production B models carried 26 gallons of water-methanol, giving approximately 15 minutes of WEP. Later production B models had 34 gallons, allowing for up to 20 minutes WEP. This is directly from the P-61 flight manual.

[warchild]

Pam, keep in mind that I am doing 3d gauges...unless you think there is really a need for a 2d panel the gauges are already part of my work package :salute:

Ahhh.. Thanks N2056.. I honestly didnt know that.. Theres no need for 2D panels in this. They were really nice in 1993 but that was then..

[warchild]

P-61A and early production B models carried 26 gallons of water-methanol, giving approximately 15 minutes of WEP. Later production B models had 34 gallons, allowing for up to 20 minutes WEP. This is directly from the P-61 flight manual.

You sir are a God Send.. Thank you.. Since our P-61 has the four fifty's mounted on top, that would place it among the later models, so 34 gallons at 20 minutes it is..

[warchild]

Hi Pam

Please excuse the presumption,
Cheers
Paul

No presumption at all Paul.. you helped me think it through this morning.. Thanks for sharing your idea. It's apprecuated..
Pam

[stansdds]

Do you have a P-61 flight manual?

[stiz]

You sir are a God Send.. Thank you.. Since our P-61 has the four fifty's mounted on top, that would place it among the later models, so 34 gallons at 20 minutes it is..

I'm no expert, but werent the top turrets only one the early ones?? I seem to rember them being removed cos they where the same ones that the b-29 used .. and got them first. Rember reading how they had to get rid of all the gunners and the radar op guy moved into the, now gone, gunners seat

[stansdds]

I think there might have also been a buffeting issue with the turret when the guns were not facing forward due to the oblong cover on the turret. Early A models, late B models and C models did have the upper turret.

[warchild]

Yeah, early A's, Late B's and C's had the turrets. They also had quite a but of buffeting. enough so that the military spent a good amount of research in eliminating it. The best solution they could find however was to weld what became known as a "cooley" hat over the top of the turet, which was partially effective, but had the nasty side effect of ripping off in dives..

As for pilots manual, Someones got one, but i dont.. Its rare and difficult to find, even for such weathered researchers as the people on this team..

[jankees]

actually, from what I read, most of the A's did not have turrets (they went to the B-29's) and so no gunners either. Buffeting from the turret was a problem, with some wild experimenting, but I believe changes in the shape of the turret solved most of the problems.

[heywooood]

As for pilots manual, Someones got one, but i dont.. Its rare and difficult to find, even for such weathered researchers as the people on this team..

http://www.amazon.com/Northrop-Black.../dp/1411689003

zeno's is helpful too...check out the vids

http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/P-61.html

[warchild]

Thanks heywpod.. much appreciated.. I'll have to wait till the first of the month to pick it up, bu t 'll definitely be buying it.. for some odd reason, when i do a search that manual doesnt come up.. it's weird..

[fliger747]

I recently downloaded the Pilots Operating Handbook, somewhere on the net for free. Try a Google/Bing search and sift through the stuff.

In Dubai, just arrived an hour or so ago. Hot enough out after the sun comes out I might get a chance to work on a few things.

Nap time: T

[N2056]

Tonight's project was getting the rest of the main panel laid out...and then realizing that the gun sight looks too low!

Attachment 16013

[Cag40Navy]

Awsome job!

[fliger747]

Currently working on the airfile.... Would send it to you except the Dubai Mail dorks are interfering with my e-mail.

Currently have 2025 hp Mil, 2230 WEP, 283 Knots at 1500 ft, Mil, 294 knots WEP at 3000 ft. Both those within a knot or twoat about 29500 lbs. Takeoff dist at that weight about 1850 ft or so for a normal takeoff with 2 notches of flaps.

Cheers: T

[warchild]

Excellent.. I'm not ure exacvtly what i've got speed wise at th moment.. we need to get it uup to 351 knots with WEP.mine does that, but i've been focusing on roll rate, pitch rate and other parts of the control surfaces.. roll rate is about 90 degrees per second with full spoiler on one wing. but needs fine tuning to slow it down just a tiny bit.. .. Pitch rate is high. but working on tuning that down slowly.. delta558 is on board as test pilot and researcher. he's been my number one man for years and he's the best there is in my opinion..
Enjoy Dubai.. i'm a little envious. Fantastic people in that country.. Thier hotels and racetracks ( through the hotel ) arent anything to sneeze at either ..

[Roger]

Tonight's project was getting the rest of the main panel laid out...and then realizing that the gun sight looks too low!

Attachment 16013

Coming on very nicely!

[txnetcop]

Yeah, early A's, Late B's and C's had the turrets. They also had quite a but of buffeting. enough so that the military spent a good amount of research in eliminating it. The best solution they could find however was to weld what became known as a "cooley" hat over the top of the turet, which was partially effective, but had the nasty side effect of ripping off in dives..

As for pilots manual, Someones got one, but i dont.. Its rare and difficult to find, even for such weathered researchers as the people on this team..

Try this Pam:
http://napoleon130.tripod.com/sitebu...blackwidow.pdf

Also check this out:
http://napoleon130.tripod.com/p61blackwidow/index.html

One more site of interest:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/oth...-systems-tech/
Ted

[fliger747]

Max speed for a B model , even with WEP should be about 360 mph at around 20,000 ft (not knots). Roll should not exceed amax of 50 deg/second according to the charts. I think we are getting pretty close on most of the stuff.

Actually Dubai is not so exciting right now for a non Muslim as it is the holy month of Ramadan and pretty much everything is closed till after dark. It is a pretty ecclectic place however and I know it quite well, having come here for 14 years now.

Amazingly TS3 is blocked here as is (usually) SKYPE.

More later: Tom

[N2056]

One of the harder things to pull off in Gmax is a good glass material. I have always managed to get something reasonable but it has always been weak when it comes to the specular shine. This morning I came across a thread in a developer's forum in which Bill Leaming shared his formula for glass...which I promptly incorporated into the plane.

Attachment 16211

[warchild]

Try this Pam:
http://napoleon130.tripod.com/sitebu...blackwidow.pdf

Also check this out:
http://napoleon130.tripod.com/p61blackwidow/index.html

One more site of interest:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/oth...-systems-tech/
Ted

Ted.. these are awesome.. Thank you.. Gonna have a fine but of reading this morning and enjoy every second of it .. Much appreciated..

[MudMarine]

SWEETNESS!!!

[warchild]

One of the harder things to pull off in Gmax is a good glass material. I have always managed to get something reasonable but it has always been weak when it comes to the specular shine. This morning I came across a thread in a developer's forum in which Bill Leaming shared his formula for glass...which I promptly incorporated into the plane.

Attachment 16211

Thats looking beautiful.. Can you compile her as she is and get me a model of it?? i'd like to get some developmental images of her in flight and see how she's grown.. ..