SOH P-61 project

**warchild** · July 31st, 2010, 10:33

Originally Posted by LordAkshay798

if I recall, some guy at Avhistory ( i dont remember who) made a very accurate FDE for the P-61.

i applaude him.. but this big twin engined single purpose beast has been a part of my soul ( the part that scared my momma) since the day i was born..

I have to do this..

**mal998** · July 31st, 2010, 12:12

I have Squadron/Signal's "P-61 Black Widow in Action" reference book. It details the P-61B/C & F-15A (photo recon version) and has quite a bit of useful info, i.e. panel photos and lots of other details on model variations.

If this project gets to the point where you feel this material will be of use, let me know and I'll provide it. Also, I'd be happy to volunteer to be a Beta tester if it gets that far.

**roger-wilco-66** · July 31st, 2010, 13:21

omigod, a P-61 is coming !!!!!!!!!

Can't wait for that one !

Cheers,
Mark

**skyhawka4m** · July 31st, 2010, 13:27

I actually remember being asked to do paints for a P-61 that someone had started but not sure what ever happened to it. I even went and bought the supplies to do a few of them. Maybe after this one is done I'll do them up.,

**Whitehawk** · July 31st, 2010, 13:39

I wish I had something to contribute but will have to content myself with waiting as quietly as possible lol, +1 to the closet Black Widow lovers club!

**mal998** · July 31st, 2010, 15:01

Saw this recently at the National Air & Space Museum at Dulles...

Attachment 14149 Attachment 14148

Attachment 14147

**warchild** · July 31st, 2010, 16:14

Originally Posted by Whitehawk

I wish I had something to contribute but will have to content myself with waiting as quietly as possible lol, +1 to the closet Black Widow lovers club!

Whitehawk.. you can be on the test team.. I need people who love this thing and are willing to push it ( and me ) to the limit and be straight up about their findings.

**warchild** · July 31st, 2010, 16:21

I've started work on the widow this morning.. all the physical characteristics and measurments have been laid in and MOI's calculated. i got lucky and found a PDF for the curtiss electric props and adjusted those. The CG is still off a foot or two and with all the weight along the centerline, it might be too high by a few inches as well.. Prop pitch needs to be tuned as does the prop MOI, but basically she flies ok already.
I'll start digging into the primary dynamics tomorrow.

PS.. I checked You Tube for videos.. all they had were some old army training videos which are priceless in their own right, but they dont give me any indication of how it handles..

**warchild** · July 31st, 2010, 16:32

Originally Posted by mal998

Saw this recently at the National Air & Space Museum at Dulles...

I love those pictures.. With four 20 mm canon on her its a wonder they didnt relegate her to being a can opener against tanks and trains..
Also, theres another version most people dont know about. The P-61E, which was an escort fighter till the P-51 came along. Pilots sat side by side and she didnt have the radar operator or a crew tub.. she looks a bit like a very big bad assed lightning..

**Cag40Navy** · July 31st, 2010, 16:55

I would be willing to help. I have a few old P-61 pilots on my phone and a possible line to the pilots of the F-15A Reporter.

Also, is it possible to do a F-15A Reporter, F-15A Fire Fighting variant and the P-61 Fire Fighting variant? Please?

**warchild** · July 31st, 2010, 17:32

fantastic Cag

..
I'm not sure where Crashaz wants to take this or how far he'll go. I'd love to see the F-15A variant as well the P-61E. it would cover all the major variants quite nicely, especially if we had the fire fighter in there.. But its up to Crashaz, and right now, we're still lacking a VC modeler.. I can always use an extra hand keeping me honest with the dynamics though and glad to have you help out..

**Cag40Navy** · July 31st, 2010, 17:48

Originally Posted by warchild

fantastic Cag

..
I'm not sure where Crashaz wants to take this or how far he'll go. I'd love to see the F-15A variant as well the P-61E. it would cover all the major variants quite nicely, especially if we had the fire fighter in there.. But its up to Crashaz, and right now, we're still lacking a VC modeler.. I can always use an extra hand keeping me honest with the dynamics though and glad to have you help out..

Just tell me were to report.

**Whitehawk** · July 31st, 2010, 18:07

Originally Posted by warchild

Whitehawk.. you can be on the test team.. I need people who love this thing and are willing to push it ( and me ) to the limit and be straight up about their findings.

Would love to help test! Hopefully my RL twin experience will be useful lol, now to find more performance data reference material

**warchild** · July 31st, 2010, 18:38

::chuckles:: I'll PM both you folks.. Give me a few to test out a change i made first..
Twin exp. is valued.. This plane will handle a bit like the howard 500, but its a bit more aggressive through all axis's. Not much though.. that'll also give us five team members counting Delta558 and myself. Delta558s focus is on a second plane we're working on, but he's my gunner ( and a damned good one ).. anything i cant answer, he will most likely be able too..

**warchild** · July 31st, 2010, 18:44

Just to wet you whistle a bit..
Attachment 14167

**Cag40Navy** · July 31st, 2010, 19:28

Looking forward to it.

**Javis** · August 1st, 2010, 01:15

Originally Posted by skyhawka4m

Javis are you part of the resto?

Afraid not, no.. I just do the modeling stuff...

I was out there for the airshow and was amazes by the prgress and site of this plane. You guys are doing awesome!

Amazes me too, Skyhawk, if you see what they've started with..... Unbelievable what they have achieved in such relatively short time and with such a small team. Easy for me to spend most of my free time trying to help with the financing of MAAM's restoration programs in my own way.

I'm from Holland, alas a back problem prevents me from traveling long distances so i have never been able to visit the MAAM myself. Stricktly virtual for me only...

Cheers,
Jan

**michael davies** · August 1st, 2010, 01:58

Some renders to remind y'all.

It was started in 2008 as a SoH donationware product and sadly I had to drop out, not one of my better career making moves I'm afraid to say.

Crashaz took over last year and now hopefully y'all get together and do it justice.

Kindest

Michael

**skyhawka4m** · August 1st, 2010, 03:01

I'd be more than glad to help with painting if any help is needed.

**mal998** · August 1st, 2010, 04:58

A couple of pictures of the "E" model...

Attachment 14213

Attachment 14212

**Milton Shupe** · August 1st, 2010, 05:25

Originally Posted by michael davies

Some renders to remind y'all.

It was started in 2008 as a SoH donationware product and sadly I had to drop out, not one of my better career making moves I'm afraid to say.

Crashaz took over last year and now hopefully y'all get together and do it justice.

Kindest

Michael

Excellent work too Michael! I am happy to see this project revived by the team here.

**warchild** · August 1st, 2010, 10:29

I'm glad too.. The model is beautiful.. the nose is a tad long but thart could be my old eyes playing tricks on me, and the elevator animation is reversed but i notified crashaz of that.. the Alpha Zero FDE is almost ready to go as soon as i figure out why the plane constantly wants to roll to the right which will be today or tomorrow. Preferably today as i also have a Stearman to set up and get to my partner, and a third project that came in last night from Iris, and i need to allocate time for all of them. This plane however has my heart, so hate tyo say it, but it gets priority..

We have a great team so far.. Crashaz on modeling, Myself on FDE with the Jade Island team. Cag, Whitehawk, and SADT on Testing, Skyhawk just got volunteered for textures, and we just need a VC artist and gauge guru.

The FDe has 2 problems to overcome at this moment. That constant roll to the right ( which developed last night after i went brain dead ), and then theres the biggest problem..

Pilot reports that i've recieved through Cag40 indicate that this plane should be able to achieve 421 mph in level flight. given the engine data and propellor data ive been able to aquire, the absolute best i can get it is 325 mph. Thats a bit short you could say.. However!!..
History reports that the P-61E project was canceled at the onset of the deployment of P-51's because they could fly over 100 mph faster than the P-61. Since the top speed of the P-51 was approx. 451 mph, that would indicate that 325 mph is correct. Another report indicates that P-61s would have to dive on buzz bombs in order to gain enough speed to keep up before blowing them out of the air.
I am REALLY confused here. its pilots versus history and they both have credentials.. I need a tie breaker here.. (read, the discussion light is on.

).

Paul?? Does your manual indicate roll rate and pitch rate?? i dont have any data for that, and army training videos just arent enough to do stop watch timing..

Again, I am pleading for a VC artist and a gauge guru. We have the ducumentation and images for you. I know time is an issue. Besides the three projects i have going for flight sim i'm, also chairman of the board for the local peer center and outreach program and any more i have to make an appointment with myself to even eat. So yeah, i understand. But please.. We need your help.. I can guarantee a good flight model. Crashaz and Michael have done a great visual model, and its a project that is well worth doing.

Pam