Warbirdsim Mustangs For FSX!

[ErnstF]

Okay, since it comes from you i'll probably buy it IF they provide a paintkit .

Thanks Ernst <!-- / message -->

Thank YOU HenryW, I tell you more about this fabulous warbird in the norwegian forum :ernae:

You guys keep saying that the VC is close in quality to the A2A Mustang,

I say it`s on par with the A2A WW2 Mustang, and that is a compliment !!

Honestly I love it when people make the statement about how "the flight dynamics feel spot on". FSX can not simulate the feel of a real plane, bottom line it is impossible. Gravity and other forces both physical and biological that occur when you fly are not present at your desk. What it can do is simulate systems, such as over heating or failures or knowing when the plane is being pushed beyond its numbers. A2A moves towards that realism with accusim, I no longer want a pretty plane to fly, i want a plane that simulates what it is to manage its real life counterpart.

I know you can`t simulate the gravity and the physical forces in FSX (which plane are YOU flying???),
but you can do very much to simulate the feelings and stimulate the imagination, and that is what I`m looking for when bying. The WBS have done an incredible good job to give this model the right feeling.

And there are no problem with frames, the flights are smooth as silk

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[SpaceWeevil]

Anyone like a quick review? So yes, obviously I bought it - end of the month, all bills paid and a few quid left. Do I have more money than sense? Not any more!

The much-discussed activation worked very smoothly and if you can follow simple instructions you’ll have no problem. I was up and flying within 10 minutes - I’ve waited longer for conventional licence codes to arrive.

The manual is very comprehensive. WBS say it's the text of the actual P51 manual and point out that contains information about some systems that aren't actually modelled due to FSX limitations. Still and all it's a fascinating read and has everything you need to get the best out of the Mustang.

First impressions are very good. The external modelling and detail are exquisite and the bundled textures are superb - in these respects it stands comparison with the very best FSX payware. From the way it sits to the way the landing gear compresses over bumps to the perfect impression of stressed skin, this looks (and sounds) so completely right.

The cockpit is very detailed and nicely functional within the limits of FSX – most of us accept that there has to be some compromise between ‘accuracy’ and what is possible in FSX. It’s very reminiscent of the A2A Mustang 'pit and while I know it’s a similar layout it’s not just that. Make no mistake this VC is very good but the textures and gauges are honestly not quite in the same league as the Classics Hangar FW190s or the Vertigo Studios Hellcat. My opinion, of course.

This P51 is enormous fun to fly but challenging to fly well and is decidedly more tricksy than the A2A P51D. It needs flying all the time with close attention to trim but is generally safe and predictable as long as you watch speed & attitude. It’s easy to overstress this slippery bird in a dive as it accelerates so quickly, and that laminar flow wing stalls as quick as winking at any speed if you’re too rough with the controls. As far as I can tell the performance & handling are spot on, by which I mean (before anyone hoots) that she seems to perform pretty closely to published data. Obviously I’ve never flown anything remotely like this in real life and equally obviously this is a computer game.

Does it have an equivalent to A2A’s Accusim? Well, the systems certainly require close attention to extract the best performance. If you follow the recommendations on MP, RPM, mixture and fuel management she soars, if not she wallows like an old cow. Engine failure does not seem to be modelled - I did my level best to blow her up, screaming around at full throttle with the shutters closed, climbing flat out and even leaving her on the runway idling. The temps got close to but never passed the red line. It seems that the consequences of not managing the systems properly are poor performance and loss of control rather than systems failure.

Leaving aside the price (which has been done to death) I think part of the problem with this Mustang is expectation. I’ve seen it grow from the beginning through Bomber 12th's posts, I’ve listened to all the hype, had a very long wait and now been asked to pay rather more that I was expecting. After all that I was expecting something really extraordinary. The Warbirdsim Mustang for FSX is not extraordinary, but it is very good indeed.

So is it worth the money? I can only decide for me. I do feel a bit silly for spending so much but the answer is yes – just about. Others, particularly the hard-boiled AccuSim men, may not be so easily convinced.

[SirBenn21]

Anyone like a quick review? So yes, obviously I bought it - end of the month, all bills paid and a few quid left. Do I have more money than sense? Not any more!

.....


So is it worth the money? I can only decide for me. I do feel a bit silly for spending so much but the answer is yes – just about. Others, particularly the hard-boiled AccuSim men, may not be so easily convinced.

I'm sure there is no dought in anyones mind that this is a good add-on, but it's not a $75 good add-on. Well maybe for some who have lots of money to burn.
I also think the timing was a little bad with all the new add-ons this month.
I personally would have loved to have got hold of this one, but ...

Your review was good reading though. Thanks

Ben

[Henry]

some great screen shots
thanks
H

[Boomer]

Thanks Weevil, thats what I wanted to hear. I have been planted firmly on the fence with this one & your post helped me make the decision.

[DennyA]

Just echoing the earlier posts... Complaining about the price goes to show the developer that there are potential sales being lost due to the pricing decision. Without that outcry, low sales might be written off as being because of piracy, choice of plane, etc.

Obviously I want these folks to be rewarded financially for their efforts. But it seems to me that sales in 4-digit ranges at $29.95 would make more money than sales in 3-digit ranges at $75.

[gajit]

After seeing those screenshots I almost bought it but stopped half way though registering as i realised that I would probably have a few other products to buy in the very near future (including A2A Cub) - almost 2 for the price of one.

[letsgetrowdy]

does anyone have any screen shots?
H

I don't think any ones bought it yet......
can't decide if I want it or not, I mean it is a lot of money.... and A2A and justflight are doing some p-51s too....
hard situation of choices....

[letsgetrowdy]

Is there a way of dropping the tanks so that they don't show up in Fs-recorder or multiplayer just saying cos this annoys me on the A2A P-51

[peter12213]

I'm still using the fs2004 model in fsx accel and I can't see any difference at all!!

[calypsos]

I'm still using the fs2004 model in fsx accel and I can't see any difference at all!!

Maybe you have just saved FS9 P-51 owners 75 dollars!

[peter12213]

I'm glad about that mate because I'm the same, I don't see any difference the fs9 cockpit looks the same, is functional, and it looks great, I'm certainly not shelling out that kind money for something thats only marginally different in my opinion!
Here some pics the prop is the only thing thats different, but from inside the VC it looks fine!

These shots were from in Accel too, I'll let you be the Judges though guys!

Theres a saying over here... Its money for old rope lol!!


Personally I do think Warbirdsim is a great company who's work is great, but if you already have this aircraft for Fs9 then its not worth getting the fsx one as you can see the only issue is the prop, if you haven't got it already though then do buy the FSX one. This is only my humble opinion though!

[Slug Flyer]

Pretty sure CWDT is a different (now defunct?) company that modeled in the FS9 days.

[peter12213]

My bad, edited!! lol I've got that many I forget who made which ones lol!

[Cerberus]

Maybe you have just saved FS9 P-51 owners 75 dollars!

Does the FSX version have exterior shadows? I tried to see them in the screenshots but could not tell. If they do then that is always a nice improvement over Fs2004 models.

[peter12213]

Cerberus mate, who cares? Have you got $75 for shadows' or bump maps, I know I havent normally when I see your name on here its for a free giveaway for some repaint or something, if you ain't got this bird then get it its class, but if you've got the fs9 version then its not worth shelling out the cash for this version. I mean I'm all for buying a better version of an fs9 aircraft if it doesn't perform or handle right in FSX but this is an exception, I'd rather save up and buy that meteor when it released or as every WW2 enthusiast want's at the moment that gogeous Lancaster from FCS!!

[Stickshaker]

OK then, here are some first impressions.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
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Installation: the installer could not find the path to FSX, although it was shown correctly in the installation program window. After contacting Warbirdsim and receiving an answer almost immediately, I installed the files in a temporary directory and then moved them to FSX. No further problems. This issue may be due to my computer configuration.<o></o>
Activation: no problems.<o></o>
Cockpit: looks excellent, although I am not a stickler for details. For example, the gauges may be 2D, but from the distance and angle I look at them they look fine to me. Much detail in the cockpit. The ring gunsight can be removed with a click, improving forward vision, which is as I remember from peering through the windshield of the real Princess Elisabeth at Duxford. The side windows can be opened, but that does not change the amount of lateral movement possible with TrackIR 4. This is the very first P-51B/C for the FS series with a VC similar to what I saw at Duxford and in line with photos I have seen. I did not check whether every bolt was in the right place, but in general lay-out the cockpit looks very good. The Malcolm canopy does not have a frontal frame. I don’t know whether this is correct but assume it is.<o></o>
Taxiing: I could not get the tailwheel steering to work by pulling the stick back. I don’t know whether this feature is included in FSX (didn’t read the manual yet).<o></o>
Taking off: I had only 14% fuel (with the range of the Mustang this is enough for a few touch & go’s), which made acceleration very brisk. If you give too much power she actually rolls over to the left rather violently, which I think is very realistic but have not experienced in other virtual Mustangs. Increasing the power after lifting the tailwheel pulls the nose downward and increases acceleration considerably. Rudder is very responsive and very well proportioned, without the jerkiness of many FS planes. Directional stability is greater than I would expect from a plane without the dorsal fin of later –B’s.<o></o>
Flight: in line with other FS Mustangs, but a bit more sensitive, really like a racehorse. Stick-rudder harmonization is very pleasant. I did not check whether she flies by the numbers, but the general impression in climb and turn is what I would expect. I think the real plane needs a bit more trim change when moving the throttle. There is relatively little warning of stalls, but the wing buffet should be enough warning in normal flight (perhaps not when landing). But I can imagine that in the stress of combat the buffet is easily overlooked. Spins usually stop after half a turn, as is correct I think. Recovering is thus not difficult, but I did not yet try high G accelerated stalls. Incipient spins are similar to normal ones.<o></o>
Approach: Speed, rate of descent and angle of attack seem to be correct from what I read in flight reports. Visibility over the nose is sufficient, partly thanks to the relative high (but not unrealistic) eyepoint. It is easy to keep the nose in the right direction with the rudder during small power adjustments.<o></o>
Landing: A three point landing is as I would expect. It is not difficult to avoid a stall, despite the laminar wing. Point of criticism: when making a wheel landing (often done during WWII) it is almost impossible to avoid bouncing, as in many FS planes, in my experience. Directional stability is again greater than I would expect.<o></o>
Exterior: Looks very good to me, with lots of detail and a nice shine.<o></o>
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All in all, en excellent plane, without major weaknesses and also without major innovations compared to other FS aircraft. I refuse to go into the question whether it is worth the money for two reasons:<o></o>
1: It is purely a matter of personal taste. I can imagine that, if you already have the excellent A2A Mustang or like the Accusim features of the A2A P-47 and want to wait for their new P-51D, you won’t buy the Warbirdsim plane. On the other hand, if you want not just any Mustang but the P-51B, with a cockpit considerably different from that of the P-51D, there is no alternative for the Warbirdsim plane. Whether some features are or are not better than those of other Mustangs is open to debate, that it is different is true for sure. I am a fan of the razorback Mustang and am glad I bought it.<o></o>
2: It is impossible to judge for me whether the price is right for what you get. That the price differs from what we are used to need not imply that it is not ‘right’. Perhaps the plane contains so much detail, only visible if you look much closer than I did, and hence took so much development work, that the price reflects this. Perhaps the market for the P-51B is so much smaller than for the P-51D that a higher price is needed, just like books for small markets are sometimes more expensive than those for large markets. Perhaps the development process was not efficient and cost more effort than necessary. That is not for me to judge; I can only say that the result is worth it for me, but many may decide otherwise. Perhaps the people at Warbirdsim want to retire to the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1lace>Bahamas</st1lace></st1:country-region> with the money they make on this project. That is perfectly OK with me; why should sim plane developers make less money than other entrepreneurs or, for example, bankers? Of course, no one is under any obligation to support their ambition (while with bankers you are at their mercy once you’ve signed for that mortgage that you didn’t see the consequences of), but it seems a perfectly legitimate ambition to me. All in all, I have no judgment about the ’fairness’ of the price of this plane.<o></o>
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And now I’m off to fly some more above occupied <st1lace>Europe</st1lace>. My only regret is that I have no guns. But that means that the opposition has no guns either…<o></o>
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[Stickshaker]

Cerberus mate, who cares?

Obviously, Ceberius does.

[gajit]

Wow - 2d gauges?! I would have been really hacked off if I had found that out

[gomslork]

Not really thinking about the price, I ordered this 2 days ago, but warbirdsim has not yet managed to give me the link to the download. How long is that suppose to take? Whats the rests experience with this company?
Peronally, I'm very disapointed. Would think for that price they would behave a bit more professional and deliver it instantly like the rest of the addon developers.

[SpaceWeevil]

Not really thinking about the price, I ordered this 2 days ago, but warbirdsim has not yet managed to give me the link to the download. How long is that suppose to take? Whats the rests experience with this company?
Peronally, I'm very disapointed. Would think for that price they would behave a bit more professional and deliver it instantly like the rest of the addon developers.

Did you check with their support? Very quick turnaround (minutes) here.

[jankees]

But no paintkit I fear....


unless you can use the FS9 version??

[ErnstF]

Taxiing: I could not get the tailwheel steering to work by pulling the stick back. I don’t know whether this feature is included in FSX (didn’t read the manual yet).<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

You must push the stick forward to unlock the tailwheel

[tigisfat]

Warbirdsim has a really cool and well put together website.

[Bomber_12th]

Thank you everyone for sharing your views of the product. Hopefully it shows well Warbirdsim's commitment to the P-51B/C series in getting it right. Note that besides just the fuselage, the wing is different to that of the D model, the landing gear is especially different, and the nose, over the top, features the distinctive 'hump' that was no longer present when the D model was developed. Other details that you can notice that are different to the D, is that the elevators are fabric covered, instead of aluminum, the gun access door shapes are strictly accurate to the B/C, and careful attention was made to getting every other panel line and rivet in their exact spots.

Between having the FS2004 and FSX designed aircraft within FSX, there is a distinct difference. While the FS2004 release employed graphics to make it look as realistic as possible in that sim, these were greatly adjusted to hopefully make the FSX version even more photoreal than before. The canopy framework throughout the cockpit was completely rebuilt, and new details, missing from the FS2004 release, were added. Besides this, the flight dynamics were tuned specifically for FSX, as was the sound, and like Warbirdsim's next, upcoming product, it has been held with high esteem by acquaintances of mine in the world of warbird restoration and operation.

Here are a few screenshots that I took throughout development that hope are some fun to look at...