Which KPDX Portland for FSX?

[CrisGer]

I am trying to improve the devault KPDX Portland International and am hoping for some advice.

the very best seems to be a scenery made for FX9 by Flight Scenery but it has incompatabilities with FSX ..i own it but am unsure about the adjustments and exclusions so must try to see what the alternatives are.

The next most complete make over seems to be another FX9 version by Andrew Niiranen and Bob Niccolai orginally released as payware...does anyone know if this works in FSX? Check Ralphs Ad and Fry's Ad.

there are several much smaller make overs ....and i will list them and the ones for FS9 in hopes of any advice.....

KPDX Portland International
FSX

Dan Reynolds
kpdx4.zip
FSX Scenery - Portland International Airport

Alpha India Group
aig_kpdx.zip
FSX AFCAD File for KPDX Portland Airport

Ray Smith
fsxkpdx2.zip
FSX Scenery--Portland International Airport (KPDX)

2004 Alternatives

Flight Scenery KPDX
Flight Scenery Team
(version proposed for FSX but not done yet)

Rojeet Singh
KPDX.zip
kpdxexcl.zip

FS2004 Scenery Portland INternational Airport KPDX
afx_kpwm_jc.zip FSX AFCAD

Andrew Niiranen and Bob Niccolai
pdx2004.zip
FS2004 Scenery Portland Int'l Airport KPDX

Ray Smith
fsxkpdx2.zip
af2kpdx.zip

FS2004 AFCAD2 File for KPDX

John Loney, Jr.
kpdx_v1.zip
FS2004 Scenery KPDX

[Overshoe]

Just a personal preference, but I use the Ray Smith FSX version. Nice balance of detail and frame rates.

[CrisGer]

thanks Tom, much appreciated

[falcon409]

I also have the Flight Scenery KPDX for FS9 and even now it stands as the single best recreation of any International Airport I've ever seen. . . .but basically useless in FSX (thanks to the designers decision to disappear without a trace before a promised patch was completed (or even started)). For that reason I would be interested as well in finding a suitable sub. I doubt any of the ones listed comes close to the precision of the payware version, but anything would be better than the default.

[CrisGer]

Hi Falcon, and thanks for your post. there is actually a thread or two on the Flight Scenery forum about this, there is some hope to make the FS9 version of that scenery work in FSX...if you do a new exclude to block the default terminal and also you have to delete the Tree bgls and do new ones..... i am working on that now.

I tried some of the other sceneries today but there seem to be problems with all of the buildings showing. i will keep working on it...and will share discoveries.

[falcon409]

Yea, I tried the FS9 version that had been payware at one time and it actually looks pretty good, but the tree textures all have a solid black panel (probably and alpha channel problem with that) and a few of the buildings had the same thing going on.

[CrisGer]

yep, those are the known problems with the flightscenery one, maybe that applies to that one you tried as well. There may be a work around, but i havent had a chance to try it yet. the designers for that project went on to work for VFR France series i think and have not come back to update this one. Maybe we can figure out how to make it work in the meantime. you may have to delete the tree bgl.s and make new ones.. ditto for the bui8ldings.

[CrisGer]

OK, i got the Flight Scenery KPDX running in both FS9, which it was made for and in FSX. The FS9 version is truly amazing, as ppl have said, the detail, ambience, subtelty and beauty of it are breathaking and i have only explored it a bit. Down to the wand waving ground handlers that appear by magic and tiny details on equipment that is appropriately found all over, it is a gem.



Dusk over the FS9 install



note details like the oil patterns on the pavement and the consumate detail in all buildings...



Traffic approaches, trees and plantings, cars, parking garages, it all is truly amazing in detail and depth ....



I very much enjoyed the wand wavers as i brought my DC3 into the gate area....

and it runs in FSX if you take out the tree bgls, the tarmac bgls and put in a exclusion for the default buildings, i am still adjusting it, but so far it does appear that much of it may actually work in FSX too...



i still have to work out the buildings and try to replace the plantings and trees which generatae black squares if used from the fS9 versoin...



there is also a problem with some of the lighting at night, but I have begun the research and from seeing how amazing it is in FS9 i think the effort is worth it. any ideas or suggestions from what others have tried are very welcome.

[falcon409]

OK, i got the Flight Scenery KPDX running in both FS9, which it was made for and in FSX. . . . . . and it runs in FSX if you take out the tree bgls, the tarmac bgls and put in a exclusion for the default buildings, i am still adjusting it, but so far it does appear that much of it may actually work in FSX too. . . . . .
there is also a problem with some of the lighting at night, but I have begun the research and from seeing how amazing it is in FS9 i think the effort is worth it. any ideas or suggestions from what others have tried are very welcome.

Yep, I purchased Both Zone1 and Zone2 products for FS9 when they were first released. Still some of the best ever produced for FS9.
If you have any of this written down (like exactly what files to delete and the other tweaks you've already discovered), maybe you can post it here?

The FlighScenery Forum and website are no more now, so all the great work that others had done in trying to get it to work in FSX is gone now. So anything you have will be appreciated.

[falcon409]

Ok, here's a bit of an update. I am gonna make an assumption based on what I remember from several years ago in trying this before and what I found this morning when I tried it again. Anything I say worked for me in this may or may not work for someone else. That's my disclaimer, lol, and here's why:

I don't remember what system I was running a few years ago, but it was not what I have now. I think it was probably the Pentium4, 3.2Ghz system I used to have with 4gig of RAM and probably an NVidia 7600GT card with 256ram and that's just a guess. Anyway, back then, when I tried to get Zone2 KPDX to work in FSX I was getting black boxes where building were supposed to be and trees with black boxes and even the light effects from the light poles were black triangles. Also the rwy lights were a killer as well if I remember right. Anyway, I deleted the trees and the lights but it still was killing the framerates big time and so I finally gave it up and deleted it.

Fast Forward to the 21st century, lol (yea I know it was back then too, but the system has changed somewhat) and now I'm running a Dual Core w/8gig of RAM, 3.0CPU, NVidia 9600GT with 512 ram and the current drivers. So once again I give KPDX a try and this time, no black boxes anywhere and considering the Frame hits I took a few years ago, this was actually flyable as it was. . .FPS was around 10fps but in FSX that's flyable compared to 10 in FS9. Closer examination did show problems though, while there were no black boxes around the trees, they still had an alpha problem that looked like an invisible area around the trees that blocked out anything behind it (I'm sure some of you have seen this before). Also, the lighting had a huge "bloom" effect going on that hit the FPS when you moved those areas into view. Again, no problems with the building like I had seen before, so my guess is, depending on your system, the amount of memory you have and the video card and drivers you utilize, you may see some, all or none of what I see and your problems with this scenery may be completely different, I can't say for sure.

I would almost bet that everyone will have tree problems and then some may have problems with the lights, but I can tell you that after moving all the tree bgl's and light bgl's out of the scenery folder (I put them in folders on my desktop for now) and going back into KPDX to fly, it is quite flyable now. I think my cpu is holding me back somewhat but 14 to 15fps on my system in this scenery is more than acceptable and I made flyovers at a few of the other airports, like Troutdale and the fps was even better there, so for me, KPDX is back and I'll continue to tweak here and there to see if I can get any more out of it. . . .this screen shows what I have right now and I'll be using either Instant Scenery or a program called TreePlanter to go back and add trees where needed to give it that "lived in" look again, lol.

[CrisGer]

falcon that looks great. wow, the two pages on this work to update this airport from the old site are gone, i was using them last week for this research! ah well..

here are the changes that worked for one of those who was working on this then:

OK.. This is a precis of bnick's ealier post, and so this is what I followed. The last part is a bit confusing.. but it works. Good luck!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:52 pm
I'd like to note that I am not using the FlightZone02_LC Landclass directory at all because I am using, and have really enjoyed the wonderful Landclass, Roadway\Railway\River\Lake\Creek\Stream, software GEX\UTX which covers the whole USA and has incredible satellite based GIS\GPS accurate detail...
Here is what I removed until our beloved FZ02 is finally made available and of which I hope I live long enough to see...
Note 1: I do still get some FZ02 ground texture bleedthrough if my camera is close to the ground but if I pan in spotview at about 40' or 50' AGL the bleed disappears...
Note 3: The entire Landclass FlightZone02_LC directory can still be used in FSX\Sp1\Sp2 as I have tested it with no problems at least on my machine... It was beautifully created and is very accurate for the FZ02 area if one is not using the GEX\UTX addon packages...
Here are the files I found caused many on the problems in FSX for me...
Remove:-
1W1-ground01v2.bgl (great PDX photo scenery but many of the buildings are black... If the bgl was recompiled without all those black buildings the whole FZ02 area would look just about perfect...
All FZ02 Tree bgl's needed removing...
hio-rwy01.bgl
hio-rwy02.bgl
hio-tarmac01.bgl
hio-tarmac02.bgl
hio-trees01.bgl
hio-trees02.bgl
hio-trees03
PDX_trees03-01.bgl
PDX_trees03-02.bgl
PDX_trees03-03.bgl
PDX_trees03-04.bgl
PDX_treesAMF.bgl
PDX_treeseastpk.bgl
PDX_treesFltcft.bgl
PDX_treespt5.bgl
PDX_treespt9.bgl
PDX_treespt11.bgl
PDX_treessouth.bgl
PDX_treestwr.bgl
pdx-dirtsrwyCv2.bgl
pdx-dirtsrwyEv2.bgl
pdx-dirtsrwyWv2.bgl
All pdx-tarmac bgl's needed removing...
pdx-tarmac2_E.bgl
pdx-tarmac2_W.bgl
pdx-tarmac2_Wa.bgl
pdx-tarmac2v2.bgl
pdx-2004seasons.bgl needed removing...
ttd_tarmac01.bgl
ttd_tarmac02.bgl
ttd_tarmac03.bgl
ttd-trees.bgl
vuo-tarmac01.bgl
vuo-tarmac02.bgl
vuo-trees01,bgl
vuo-trees02.bgl
vuo-trees03.bgl
I also used the FSXPlanner and the Airport Design Editor programs to edit the FSX master Airport Afcad APX15150.bgl which is found in the FSX\Scenery\0101 directory... (Note - by pj.. I have no idea what he did here..)
This APX15150.bgl was easily converted using Bgl2Xml.exe if needed...
I still need to move a bit more the default FSX APX15150.bgl's, Jetways and parking to align with the FZ02 Terminal buildings and Jetways more accurately and this can be done nicely in either of the free FSXPlanner program or the Airport Design Editor programs which sync's nicely with an FSX Top-Down slew mode while FSX is running...
I hate to add anything else here but I have to note, that at least for me, if I also remove:
kpdxrwylights.bgl
kvuorwylights.bgl
kttdrwylights.bgl
I keep all my Dusk\Nite\Dawn runway lights and flashing strobes\Rabbit turned on during these hours... BUT, and for whatever reason I cannot explain, and maybe Vauchez can, I lose seeing all daytime AI aircraft... Dusk\Nite\Dawn AI aircraft show up perfectly, only the daytime planes disappear... This has happened only since FSX SP2... All the AI is still working, you just cannot see the planes... I see all their lights and rubber smoke on landings, but no aircraft, if those bgls listed just above here are installed... Remember crazy as this is with these same bgl's removed I also see all my Dusk\Nite\Dawn runway lights...
Now if I install those 3 bgl's I will see all my AI aircraft perfectly during Day\Dusk\Nite\Dawn but I will loose all my Dusk\Nite\Dawn runway lights and strobes within the FZ02 area... If I'm flying to Seattle's SEATAC KSEA all AI aircraft and runway lights work perfectly because I'm out of the FZ02 area... Go figure... I have removed SP2 and everything works fine in the FZ02 area regarding seeing all my AI aircraft and all runway lights but SP2 does something strange to say the least within these 3 bgl's...
If you have installed UT upgrade, all the files listed below should have been renamed from .bgl to .ori
HL915150_FZ02_EX
HP915150_FZ02_EX
RD915150_FZ02_EX
RR915150_FZ02_EX
ST915150_FZ02_EX
If it's not the case, rename them manually to .ori and see if the problem is gone in FS.

i am still tweaking as with these changes the terminal roofs are wrong on the C shaped section of the terminals that extends from the major glassed over portion of the main terminal. There are a series of smaller raised roofs that are present in FS9 but not in FSX. I am theorizing that the default buildings from the original airport from FSX are poking thru and coveirng them up. more later and your set up is looking good.

I have a tree bgl that someone sent me for this, i can share it with you if you are interested, let me know. Also an Excl. file but i am not sure yet about either. Still early days in my tweaking.

[falcon409]

Ok, not sure what pulling the tarmac bgl's will do as I doubt they have any real effect on the fps. I did remove the LC files as I am running GEX and UTX and I don't know that I saw any real change. The approach lights still have this bloom effect from a few miles out and it doesn't really go away until after you pass them, that may have an adverse effect but I'm not sure.

My big focus now will be to toil in the soil, so to speak, and plant a bunch of trees. . .amazing how good this looks right now, but also how barren it looks without the trees and shrubs.

[CrisGer]

awww, nice. i was wondering about the tarmacs too i may try putting them back in

I would love to see what you do with the trees, that veg that they had in the original was so good and really enhanced the scenery. I am happy to send you the files i have if you are interested. cheers and good luck. this is one amazing scenery and worth the effort. Just look at the care they took with the textures all along the walls of the terminals and the work areas, esp at night.

[falcon409]

I added the two files you sent and I will probably still go back in and add more trees (you can never have too many trees, lol). I think I've got it where I need it now, I just want to work a bit on the other side of the rwy. The Portland ANG F-15's are parked where those blue hangars are across the rwy and down from those used to be an AFRC Rescue Unit that deactivated in 2007 (had a fellow simmer who was stationed there). They had C-130's and Heli's if I remember right.
Just for reference, I flew a night flight out of Troutdale to Gillette and then back into KPDX and the nightlighting was really off the scale and FPS in that area closer to the city of Portland was in the single digits. I assumed it was the Zone2 scenery, but after checking a few places I realized it was the UTX settings I had activated for night lighting. I turned both settings off and the fps went back to double digits.

[CrisGer]

Cool Falcon.

just out of interest, where did you put the two bgls i shared? i put them in their own directory in my AddOns folder so i could turn them on and off together, but i think the instructions were to put them in the Addons/Scenery file...just curious.

I would love to see what you come up with, i will work on this today too. I am curious about that night lighting stuff too.

maybe we can put some 130s in. What program are you using to add stuff?

[Helldiver]

Now that don't look a bit like Portland, Maine to me.
You kids smoking that funny stuff again?

[falcon409]

Cool Falcon.
just out of interest, where did you put the two bgls i shared? i put them in their own directory in my AddOns folder so i could turn them on and off together, but i think the instructions were to put them in the Addons/Scenery file...just curious.

Actually, since there were only those two I put them back in the Zone2_SC scenery folder.

I would love to see what you come up with, i will work on this today too. I am curious about that night lighting stuff too.

Yea, I really assumed the the fps hit at night was coming from the nightlighting in the payware scenery, but it was actually from those settings I activated in UTX

maybe we can put some 130s in. What program are you using to add stuff?

I'm using Instant Scenery

[falcon409]

Now that don't look a bit like Portland, Maine to me. You kids smoking that funny stuff again?

First of all Helldiver. . . .thanks for calling me a "kid", lol, always appreciated. Secondly, sometimes I wish I had experienced that "funny stuff" at least once, lol.

[CrisGer]

heheh, Helldiver

KPWM Portland Maine
KPDX Portland, Oregon

no, no funny stuff for me either, my Flight Instructor (virtual) would drop me out of the cockpit at 40,000. she is a mean cuss and dont wont let me have any fun until i can bring a heavy into JFK on the centre line .... and that looks like it is a long way off

[falcon409]

Well, I spent last evening adding trees to the area around the main terminal and parking lot and across the way at the ANG and old AFRES buildings. I also started placing AGE Equipment around the line where the F-15's park. Today I'll spend more time adding trees to outlying areas to break up the flat land and fill in a bit. I'm going to check MAIW and see if they have anything for Portland, or at least an F-15 package that I can use to fill the ramp where the 123rd FS parks.

[CrisGer]

great work Falcon, i got the bgls in the right place finally and things are looking great, terminals 100% with the correct glass venturi roofs on the outlying terminal arms, and the trees along the main approach avenue, i also added back in all the tarmac files but i think i am getting a wierd stripping on the pavement from them now, i wil check ariel photographs of the real KPDX to verify... i think that is agreat idea to see if the military air sets include one for this area, i am going to add in all of my Virtual Air traffic files again as i want to see this place bustling with the normal traffic. I am sending you some more files i got from one of the guys who has been working on this also, they are compatablity files for UTX and may help us out as well. great work. i may look at Fly Tampa SEA next to see if we can do the same for there, so we can fly between them.

cheers, and this sure is fun.

[falcon409]

Ok, a couple of things are popping up here:
No traffic. . .the AFCAD is either corrupted or there isn't one loading. Also, the parking area next to the main terminal that's multi-layered, appears to have a major alpha problem. It looks like it's walled on the exterior with one way glass, lol. I can see the cars on the very top but below that it's just mirrored glass (not really, just how it appears).

[CrisGer]

I am loading up the WoAI files for the area to see if i can get traffic that way, as i had the same problem, well, realatively, i had SOME traffic but no heavies.

here are some more bgls. from the work that the other guys have done over the years to try to get this working in FX, maybe there will be some help for that building, i am going to drive around the airport in one of the vehicles to see about that and to check for other issues...

more files:

http://www.filefront.com/14213585/MO...nge-files.rar/

these are more bgls for conversion to FX for this scenery from past work by other simmers....

http://www.filefront.com/14196981/KP...sion-BGLs.rar/

and these are conversion compatability fixes for users of UTX, but there is an unlock file missing, trying to get it now.
http://www.filefront.com/14209761/Mo...X-and-UTX.rar/

[CrisGer]

Falcon i did a long cross check between the FSX and the FS9 versions and indeed the parking structure appears to have some problems as it translates into FSX...pics from both versions...

FS9 Version



plenty of planes in FS9

also there are plenty of planes and traffic in the FX9 version, it is just like being at the real airport and the detail is simply amazing...i did also find fighters parked over at that side area as you discussed.

the detail is still very nice in the FSX, quite a spectacle after dark.



hopefully we can get the fullest detail translated...

[falcon409]

Ok, I have zero traffic here, so I may have to go back to the beginning and start all over again as it would be a shot in the dark now to figure out what I did that suddenly caused the AI traffic to disappear. I tried converting the AFCAD to FSX but all that produced was about 2 pages of errors in the process and basically all the info it spit out was greek to me so that's no help. I kept a fresh AFCAD file to overwrite any screw ups I might have made, but still no traffic and I had some when I first started all this conversion.

Looks like I'll be uninstalling this attempt and beginning again.