Destroyers

[fliger747]

The battlewagons had a few dramatic clashes, but for the destroyers almost everyday was a day at war. There were some good destroyers, but they had so many tasks! Even more than most combatants, their effectivness depended on the boldness and skill of their crews and commanders.

As torpedo boats, few could equal the overall night fighting records of the Japanese ships in the solomons. Some other nations also had some very brave cavalry type charges against heavy iron.

Antisub work, anti aircraft screening, lifeguard and rescue, radar picket and on and on.

The destroyer is real jack of all trades. Arleigh Burke was asked by a junior officer in the Solomons, the difference between a good officer and an outstanding one, the reply "about 10 seconds". It turned out to be a truism.

Cheers: T.

[CrisGer]

The 'cans' were and are the workhorses of any fleet. it is good to see them get a thread. It is interesting to trace their development from the screening torpedo boats of the early 1900's when they were often decks awash and severly limited in what they could do in the open sea in some condtions, to the modern multi purpose platforms they have become. In WWII it seemed that every return to port resulted in more gear and equipment being added topside, from what i hear. And the IJN DD's of WWII were and remain some of the greatest designs and most effective for their roles of any DD's before or since, and the Long Lance Torps made them very dangerous indeed partly due to their skill and quality but also due to some slow changes in USN fleet doctrine. I still enjoy reading endlessly the accounts of destroyer action in all fleets, and think them one of the most remarkable ship types, really the modern "frigate" in their abilty to project naval doctrine on the front lines.

[fliger747]

I was priviliged to serve on both a Fletcher Class destroyer (Watts, DD 567) and a DE, (Whitehurst DE 634). Both were mostly unmodified from their WWII configuration except for removal of most of the light AA.

Whitehurst was used to film the movie "The Enemy below". She also sank a Japanese submarine off of Leyte, and took a kamakaze in the bridge the next day, with a loss of 40 crew. The DE's were optimized for one thing, and were excellent at it, hunting subs.

Watts was fast and nimble, always what I will see in my mind as a greyhound of the sea. For her time, not too big and not too small.

Radar, electonics and AA, friend of topweight, enemy of ships.

T.

[PSULLYKEYS]

Good Thread! Tin Cans and smaller have always been my favorites in the "floating" navy. I'd read somewhere that destroyer captains, as a group, were closer to having the same attributes as fighter pilots than the captains of the larger vessels. What I've read about naval actions supports this theory.

Visiting all of the remaining museum DDs is one of my wishes. The Laffey in Charleston, SC USA is a must see!

[fliger747]

A very interesting book is "The Tin Can Sailors", about the Johnston, Hoel and Samm'y B Roberts off Samar, providing leverage on the hinge of fate.

The Med, a convoy was sometimes considered a sucess if anyone got through. The light iron and merchant ships were very vunerable to the STUKA's! In that I include the British light cruisers, which were, well, bigger than destroyers.....

Cheers: T.

[PRB]

Two excellent books about destroyers: “South Pacific Destroyer”, by Russell Crenshaw Jr., who was gunnery officer aboard USS Maury (DD-401) during the Solomon Islands campaign, and “Japanese Destroyer Captain”, by Capt. Tameichi Hara, who was skipper of a few IJN destroyers, including the indestructible Shigure. These books are great.

As an aircraft carrier sailor and “brown shoe” from a more recent era (1980 – 1994), I’d say all you need to know about destroyer-men can be found in the story of “Taffy-3”, off the island of Samar, on the morning of October 25, 1944. Perhaps one of the most heroic “last stands” in the history of naval warfare.

[fliger747]

Well.. I got 50% on the above title (a good percent if you are shooting torpedoes...) It is "Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors.

T.

[crashaz]

31 Knot Burke really put to rest the superiority of Japanese night fighting ruling the Solomons.

Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors is an excellent read. Need to grab Japanese Destroyer Captain.

Some of the best performances by the Asiatic Fleet in early 42 were delivered by the 4 stacker Clemson units.

Good post!

[fliger747]

Of course the 31 knot Burke was originally a joke, as he was noting that they were making slow progress due to some of his squadron needing boiler maintaince. Somewhere I have the book (Desron 23??) on Burke's adventures in the Solomons... Also just finished reading his biography by Potter.

[PSULLYKEYS]

A good overview can be found in "Destroyers" by Anthony Preston, 1977, Prentice Hall Pub. It covers the origins of the class up to the middle '70s.

The "Last Stand" is a great book, as is (was) "Tin Cans" a paperback I read in the '60s and sadly, now cannot find.:isadizzy:

The Crenshaw and Hara books are now on my list. Thanks!

A little CFS2 ship action attached.

[Collin]

Of course there's the other side of life aboard and things that happen...

http://www.usshancockcv19.com/histories/willie-d.htm

regards Collin:ernae:

[fliger747]

Norman Friedman's "US Destroyers, an Illustrated Design History" give a lot of information on hopw the classes came about and their modifications. Amazing the compromises that had to be made to get an all around design!

Cheers: T.

[PRB]

Great books. I have four of Norman Friedman's excellent books (Illustrated Design History of: CVs, CAs, BBs, and DDs) Make it 5. Also have his book on US Naval Radar, a great source of radar stats and numbers.

I'm currently reading Castles of Steal, by Robert K. Massie. It's about the Royal Navy vs. the German Navy in WW-I. Interesting accounts of destroyer operations in the age of battleships before airplanes "spoiled the party"...

[PRB]

There is a destroyer museum, USS Kidd, in Louisiana. I've read it is the only surviving unmodified ("stock" WW-II) Fletcher class DD! I hope she survived the hurricane down there...

http://www.usskidd.com/

[crashaz]

She's doin fine... talked to a buddy of mine in Baton Rouge after the last set of bad weather down there.

Great ship! I also recommend the Laffey in Charleston... a much decorated veteran!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Laffey_(DD-724)

I still need to go see The Sullivan Brothers in Buffalo... that would complete my Sullivan Brothers tour since I have been to Waterloo Iowa.

[crashaz]

ACK! Just read my own link!! Laffey is in trouble!!

That would be a hell of a note... survive Kamikaze attacks only to be sunk by neglect....

[fliger747]

They were called tincans for good reason, the plating is quite thin! Good maintance is necessary to retain watertight integrity. Anyone who has been part of a deckforce with chipping hammer in hand and a bucket or red lead has some appereciation of how much work is necessary to keep one of these in shape. U505 in Chicago finally got it's own "house".

The reserve ships I served on were maintained almost like new, despite beign near the end of their useful lives. Nothing like standing on the fantail of a destroyer doing 35 knots, the deck pounding and looking up at the boiling wake.

Cheers: T.

[PSULLYKEYS]

Argh!! Laffey _ The Ship has sprung several leaks in her hull, and officials are afraid that it will not survive much longer. An estimated $7 million is needed to tow the ship to dry dock and repair it.

You mean like this Fliger?

[fliger747]

Yup, if you are down on the fantail, it is really close and personal!

T.