SC Designs F5E just released

[DC1973]

I post here with great reluctance, simply to say that I intervened on the MSFS forums because I believe it was an SoH member, Denny, who posted a perfectly cheerful launch post about our F-5E Tiger on the MSFS forums and was promptly attacked by several of the usual suspects, called a liar, etc etc. I was e-mailed about it, and decided to defend him. I can say with 100% certainty that I have been much happier since I stepped away from all social media channels other than my own. Being able to enforce members to be polite, to not be passive-aggressive, and to respect each other has produced a community where it's clearly understood that poor behaviour and endless arguments don't happen, and those that try to conduct themselves in such a way find themselves banned. In total, I have around 15,000 followers on Discord, Facebook and YouTube, a list that is regularly pruned of non-active members where possible. It IS possible.

I like the way that Mike Tyson put it: "The Internet has made people too comfortable with insulting others and not being punched in the face for it."

Everybody has different opinions, preferences, desires, hopes and experience. Only on the Internet can expressing those become a never-ending "debate" about what should and should not be. SoH was one of the places where this seemed to happen less than others, at least in the past. A quick glance at the MSFS forums or AVSIM shows how bad it gets elsewhere.

I have learned that less is more. I don't get into toxic debates any more. I don't have to. I've become so successful that I am now about to retire, at just 51 years old. There's a big world out there and I'd like to see it before I start creaking too loudly Don't waste your time on such things as endless Internet debates that always become more corrosive with time. Use this space to share your hobby, and if you must debate somebody, I recommend the Stoic Method. Before debating, you must explain to your opposite number's satisfaction their argument, and they must do the same for yours. Only when you already understand your opposite's position, are you in a place to reach a compromise.

All the best, DC

[DennyA]

Appreciate you chiming in, Dean, and your support. I've been online since the BBS days and I really should know better than to get into it. I think I keep doing it not because I think I'm going to change the mind of someone who gets more enjoyment out of finding flaws than enjoying the amazing aspects of the hobby, but because I worry about the silent 90% who read the opinions in the topic and get negative impressions about products that might in fact have a lot of potential enjoyment to bring. But hey, that's not my responsibility.

You can take the guy out of game journalism (or kill it as a viable career, as the case may be), but you can't take the game journalist out of the guy.

Anyway, back to the F-5, I'm really enjoying it! I did turn down the sensitivity of my Winwing stick a bit (which I'd been needing to do anyway, and which improves all the planes I'm flying). The pit is amazing in VR, it flies like a fighter, and I've always thought it was one of the best-looking planes around.

Can't wait to see what folks do with the repaint kit!

[delta_lima]

This release is one I'm considering strongly given it's varied heritage, and more personally, I had a chance to backseat a D model in AETE at CFB Cold Lake in the fall of 1989. Was a thrill of a lifetime.

Overall, it looks pretty good - my key areas of focus are that the pedals and can the HSI be properly used (course and bearing adjustable for navigation). The helmet issue has been beaten to death - I'm happy with the HGU-33/P as that represents the time period I'm interested in ('70s - '80s), but would have not been disappointed if the newer -55 had been specified. Neither is wrong, so why it's being debated is beyond me.

If the flight modeling is decent, as it appears to be, I'm game to get it. FWIW, I had to drastically attenuate my joystick sensitivities in the sim - all planes flew terribly "out of the box" - a reflection on the sim, not the aircraft. The control sensitivity is a WIP with me, so I'll certainly hold judgement on the flight model until I'm fully satisfied sim is correctly intaking my control outputs.

I hope Dean does well with this release, as there's no shortage of either real - or quasi-real (CF-5, etc.) repaint opportunities.

Cheers all.

dl

[Priller]

Please delete this post. Dean has said it all.

priller

[Cazzie]

I post here with great reluctance, simply to say that I intervened on the MSFS forums because I believe it was an SoH member, Denny, who posted a perfectly cheerful launch post about our F-5E Tiger on the MSFS forums and was promptly attacked by several of the usual suspects, called a liar, etc etc. I was e-mailed about it, and decided to defend him. I can say with 100% certainty that I have been much happier since I stepped away from all social media channels other than my own. Being able to enforce members to be polite, to not be passive-aggressive, and to respect each other has produced a community where it's clearly understood that poor behaviour and endless arguments don't happen, and those that try to conduct themselves in such a way find themselves banned. In total, I have around 15,000 followers on Discord, Facebook and YouTube, a list that is regularly pruned of non-active members where possible. It IS possible.

I like the way that Mike Tyson put it: "The Internet has made people too comfortable with insulting others and not being punched in the face for it."

Everybody has different opinions, preferences, desires, hopes and experience. Only on the Internet can expressing those become a never-ending "debate" about what should and should not be. SoH was one of the places where this seemed to happen less than others, at least in the past. A quick glance at the MSFS forums or AVSIM shows how bad it gets elsewhere.

I have learned that less is more. I don't get into toxic debates any more. I don't have to. I've become so successful that I am now about to retire, at just 51 years old. There's a big world out there and I'd like to see it before I start creaking too loudly Don't waste your time on such things as endless Internet debates that always become more corrosive with time. Use this space to share your hobby, and if you must debate somebody, I recommend the Stoic Method. Before debating, you must explain to your opposite number's satisfaction their argument, and they must do the same for yours. Only when you already understand your opposite's position, are you in a place to reach a compromise.

All the best, DC

Or debate like the ancient Persians. In order to validate the subject debated on, they would first debate while sober, then debate again while drunk and come to a decision between the two.

Cazzie

[delta_lima]

Please delete this post. Dean has said it all.

priller

Who's post? If you're referring to yours, you can delete them yourself. Otherwise, each to their own as to what they choose to post.

Either way, what was your point? How is that informing the thread's subject?

[jmig]

Or debate like the ancient Persians. In order to validate the subject debated on, they would first debate while sober, then debate again while drunk and come to a decision between the two.

Cazzie

Did the one who first got up after the drunken fight win?

[jmig]

...
Overall, it looks pretty good - my key areas of focus are that the pedals and can the HSI be properly used (course and bearing adjustable for navigation). The helmet issue has been beaten to death - I'm happy with the HGU-33/P as that represents the time period I'm interested in ('70s - '80s), but would have not been disappointed if the newer -55 had been specified. Neither is wrong, so why it's being debated is beyond me.

...
Cheers all.

dl

The HSI heading bug can be set using a joystick button. The Course isn't the standard VOR OBI1 setting. I haven't gotten around to figuring it out yet. I have spent way to long trying to get a button to set the TACAN channel. The events used according to Axis&Ohs won't work for me.

I would give up and just use the mouse. However, with the new Meta Quest 3 head set I have the stupid controller lines and no mouse. The ghost image of a controller with a line coming from it sure kills immersion.

[delta_lima]

The HSI heading bug can be set using a joystick button. The Course isn't the standard VOR OBI1 setting. I haven't gotten around to figuring it out yet. I have spent way to long trying to get a button to set the TACAN channel. The events used according to Axis&Ohs won't work for me.

I would give up and just use the mouse. However, with the new Meta Quest 3 head set I have the stupid controller lines and no mouse. The ghost image of a controller with a line coming from it sure kills immersion.

Thanks - that's a super helpful post. I'm not on VR (yet) but I can appreciate your issue.

I'm loathe to use up a controller button allocation for something the mouse could easily do - but I suppose binding to a keyboard key for the heading bug could work. Never done that but might bet worth trying on a similar-period airframe (maybe the T-37) and seeing if I can get used to that vs the mouse. Perpective from real-world pilots like yourself helps.

cheers,

dl

[ColoKent]

This release is one I'm considering strongly given it's varied heritage, and more personally, I had a chance to backseat a D model in AETE at CFB Cold Lake in the fall of 1989. Was a thrill of a lifetime.

Overall, it looks pretty good - my key areas of focus are that the pedals and can the HSI be properly used (course and bearing adjustable for navigation). The helmet issue has been beaten to death - I'm happy with the HGU-33/P as that represents the time period I'm interested in ('70s - '80s), but would have not been disappointed if the newer -55 had been specified. Neither is wrong, so why it's being debated is beyond me.

If the flight modeling is decent, as it appears to be, I'm game to get it. FWIW, I had to drastically attenuate my joystick sensitivities in the sim - all planes flew terribly "out of the box" - a reflection on the sim, not the aircraft. The control sensitivity is a WIP with me, so I'll certainly hold judgement on the flight model until I'm fully satisfied sim is correctly intaking my control outputs.

I hope Dean does well with this release, as there's no shortage of either real - or quasi-real (CF-5, etc.) repaint opportunities.

Cheers all.

dl

Can't disagree...looking forward to a lot of repaints:


Kent

[dvj]

I post here with great reluctance, simply to say that I intervened on the MSFS forums because I believe it was an SoH member, Denny, who posted a perfectly cheerful launch post about our F-5E Tiger on the MSFS forums and was promptly attacked by several of the usual suspects, called a liar, etc etc. I was e-mailed about it, and decided to defend him. I can say with 100% certainty that I have been much happier since I stepped away from all social media channels other than my own. Being able to enforce members to be polite, to not be passive-aggressive, and to respect each other has produced a community where it's clearly understood that poor behaviour and endless arguments don't happen, and those that try to conduct themselves in such a way find themselves banned. In total, I have around 15,000 followers on Discord, Facebook and YouTube, a list that is regularly pruned of non-active members where possible. It IS possible.

I like the way that Mike Tyson put it: "The Internet has made people too comfortable with insulting others and not being punched in the face for it."

Everybody has different opinions, preferences, desires, hopes and experience. Only on the Internet can expressing those become a never-ending "debate" about what should and should not be. SoH was one of the places where this seemed to happen less than others, at least in the past. A quick glance at the MSFS forums or AVSIM shows how bad it gets elsewhere.

I have learned that less is more. I don't get into toxic debates any more. I don't have to. I've become so successful that I am now about to retire, at just 51 years old. There's a big world out there and I'd like to see it before I start creaking too loudly Don't waste your time on such things as endless Internet debates that always become more corrosive with time. Use this space to share your hobby, and if you must debate somebody, I recommend the Stoic Method. Before debating, you must explain to your opposite number's satisfaction their argument, and they must do the same for yours. Only when you already understand your opposite's position, are you in a place to reach a compromise.

All the best, DC

I retired at 35. Have fun.

[LostPilot]

Intrigued by this addon as I like the F5, but also a bit concerned about QA if it made it all the way through to release with reversed rudders. Will keep an eye out for updates and see how it improves. Mostly, I like what I see especially from cgaviator's video! Things happen and there's always time and room for improvement.

[delta_lima]

Can't disagree...looking forward to a lot of repaints:


Kent

Funnily enough, that very airframe was half apart getting an engine (or both) replaced when my engineering class was there visiting. It’s still flying, in private ownership in the US, as I understand it.

I lost most of the 35mm pics and negs from that AETE visit so I don’t have a pic of the D I flew in the next day. I recall it was a camouflage livery almost certainly with red aggressor-style bort numbers - I believe it was a 419 Sqn bird. Regardless, the trip was superb and gave me a soft spot for the F-5 and T-38 ever since.

The FSD, Iris, and Milviz birds were a lot of fun in FS9, FSX, and P3D respectively and so as I’m coming up to speed in MSFS, look forward to reliving it a bit again in a sim package like the DC offering.

[heywooood]

the world would be a better place if in that moment each of us was being a particular jerk for the first time, we suffered a near death experience...

Life IS too short for anything but a good time.

I was just thinking the other day 'man it's been a awhile since the forums had a dumbass dustup' ...n here we are. LOL

[keithb77]

can the HSI be properly used (course and bearing adjustable for navigation).

flight modeling is decent, as it appears to be
dl

HSI can be used for nav in the expected way once you realise its active and the CRS knob only changes the CDI needle direction IF Tacan or VOR mode is active, set (for now) on the UHF selector knob above the TACAN panel.
Direction, deviation and distance as expected.
I've tracked VORs and TACANs and done a TACAn let-down to landing (no ILS yet)

All knobs can be manipulated with mouse in the usual way, in 2D and in Q3 VR

Flight modelling will be fine once the rudder is fixed, and you don't really need the rudder much in a jet (as a glider pilot I doubtless use it more than most...)
They have acknowledged the rudder issue and are looking at it.

[collensr]

A very revealing remark. Freeware is exempt from scorn and ridicule? Why?

I didn't say "Freeware is exempt from scorn and ridicule". The point is freeware products are not offered for sale therefore there is no guarantee or obligation to meet a market expectation of quality or value for money. If you don't like the product for whatever reason you delete it without suffering any financial loss or buyer remorse. In the case of freeware non-constructive criticism is unreasonable and unwarranted and actually very rare to see.

[collensr]

Sorry but I'm afraid I have a real problem with both the content and tone of this post. I have supported this forum for many years and I do not appreciate a member LECTURING ME IN CAPITALS. As consumers we are all entitled to give a view and so long as we conform with the rules of this place then that's all well and good.

The military element in MSFS is clearly becoming more and more popular as evidenced by the broadening product base and the quality of the products ( IFT/Heatwave F-14 being one example). The users of these products will be as discerning or otherwise as any other group.

This hobby is by definition dominated by "armchair pilots" because that's who buy home flight simulators ....we fly aircraft from our armchairs on our PCs or game controllers because we can't (for whatever reason) fly the real thing. Yes there are some members here who maybe ex or current pilots but that's generally not the case. Even then, as I have said before, MSFS is a game. It and the products in it are not a fully authenticated training mediums. Flight characteristics for individual aircraft can be replicated to some extent by computer code but not fully.

Like anything in life one has to be selective on what one listens to or watches. IMHO to say that you "know more than all the Utube reviewers will ever do" is a crass statement. Yes some are really poor but there are others who are excellent both in terms of their subject matter knowledge and their broadcasting and production skills. Those guys have a strong following (including many on here) and perform a very valuable and objective input to the hobby. However, as you never watch them you probably haven't seen any of these excellent productions.

Cutting to the guts of your post and agreeing with Zsolt - All developers (in fact any sales organisation) who put product out for purchase and use Social Media to promote their offerings must by definition expect a reaction - positive or otherwise and informed or uninformed. That is not "cyber-bullying". In the world we live in today today they cannot expect to 'moderate' that reaction.

Freeware is a different matter.

Dean has taken a position that he wants to address a centre-mid part of the market and that's commercially justifiable for him and indeed it's a proven success. However, he can't stop the more advanced market players also paying their hard earned for his product and giving a view on it.

By definition the quality and price point of his product is driven by the end user he is targeting. Therefore it seems obvious to me that if that product falls into more critical or discerning hands there will inevitably be an adverse reaction to be managed.

I think he can take a view on the reaction he gets. Ignore those that he deems unjustifiable and act on those where the buyer is adding value by identifying a true glitch or improvement. If you look at IndiaFoxtecho for example - Dino manages the good and bad criticism in the same calm and measured manner.

Boycott forums like this because you don't like the tones emanating is every Dev's choice. However, in this social media/online dominated world you live by the sword and die by the sword.

Dean shouldn't and doesn't need protection from forums like this to manage his audience or his business - ultimately all he needs do is check his bank account each night to see who's right and whose wrong!

Thanks to Dean for stepping in on this thread I think my points were well made......

[delta_lima]

HSI can be used for nav in the expected way once you realise its active and the CRS knob only changes the CDI needle direction IF Tacan or VOR mode is active, set (for now) on the UHF selector knob above the TACAN panel.
Direction, deviation and distance as expected.
I've tracked VORs and TACANs and done a TACAn let-down to landing (no ILS yet)

All knobs can be manipulated with mouse in the usual way, in 2D and in Q3 VR

Flight modelling will be fine once the rudder is fixed, and you don't really need the rudder much in a jet (as a glider pilot I doubtless use it more than most...)
They have acknowledged the rudder issue and are looking at it.

Precisely what I needed to know.

Many thanks.

[Javis]

Have to say that i find it a little bit disturbing to see that talking about military pilot gear, if i'm not mistaken an essential part of military aviation and, as such, an equally essential part of military aviation modeling, seems to be put away now as almost criminal ( add a pinch of salt to that please). I'm so glad that, at early age already, i was bitten by this aviation hobby bug and i call myself lucky enough to have never been able to get rid of it. Lucky because what other hobby is more extraordinairy versatile. And so it happens that a part of my man cave looks like this :




To each his own, right ?

So, yeah, whenever there's the slightest opportunity to talk about military pilot helmets and other gear i can't help to enthusiastically participate in the discussion, unaware of the fact that such discussions are thought of as being inappropriate and not done around here.

Noted as such and hopefully i'll remember that and shall refrain from any such inappropriate drivel in the future. In the mean time i shall keep my precious flight helmets, O2 masks, goggles and visors collection dust free.

(if my avatar wouldn't have had such a big head i'm sure i'd have him wearing a HGU-55/P. When Top Gear went to Vietnam they couldn't find a helmet big enough for Clarkson to wear to drive his Vespa scooter so they had him wear a bucket. You should deffinately see this episode! )

[keithb77]

However, with the new Meta Quest 3 head set I have the stupid controller lines and no mouse. The ghost image of a controller with a line coming from it sure kills immersion.

I don't have that problem with the Q3...
Do you use VRDesktop, have the Forward tracking data to PC streaming option set )or similar for however you connect)?

[Fnerg]

I have a link to some interesting facts and photos on Canadian liveries for the CF-5. Don't know if I'll be getting this one, as I'm kind of holding out on my next sim purchase for- the Lancaster. It does look great though, we'll see once the Lanc is released.
Here is the link if you're interested, it's a good read too:

https://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/...73X_1850st.pdf

[DennyA]

Wow, that’s an amazing helmet collection, Javis! Had no idea — thanks for sharing that with us!

You obviously know your stuff and you definitely should mention the helmet info as it’s really interesting.

I think folks’ reactions were just that most of us wouldn’t know one helmet/mask from another, and it’s not going to affect our enjoyment of a plane.

But we all have our stuff that bugs us. The new Navion coming out this week has ridiculously disproportioned US stars-and-bars, and it makes the great model and otherwise good paints look like a children’s toy with bad decals. I flagged it to the author and he said none of the owners of actual Navions pointed it out, but as a former model builder, it’s stuck out in a major way for me. (He’s adjusting them.)

Anyway, definitely would love to hear you share your knowledge; don’t stop! You could also proactively reach out to devs and offer to send them info on appropriate headwear for specific planes; some will probably blow it off, but others would probably really appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

[DC1973]

Helmets are of course important, but different types would require full models to support the model difference ( due to the LOC file requirements ) so it's a pretty big deal to make it happen.

An alternative is a switch in the cockpit that flips between one and another, which is possible. I do that on our F-16s for the IFF sensors on the nose, which some dislike and others simply can't live without.

Will think on it and it's been noted for a "nice to have" addition. Not a high priority though for now.

[Javis]

Wow, thats an amazing helmet collection, Javis! Had no idea thanks for sharing that with us!

Thanks a lot, Denny, very nice of you to say !

Yes, it's all a bit tongue in cheek of course. I know full well totally unimportant for most flightsimmers who, for a certain percentage, couldn't even care less about the external of a digital aircraft model. If you'd put a gorilla in the cockpit to fly the machine they probabely wouldn't notice.

Just about all my knowledge about military pilotgear comes from books. Just like i was totally unaware of a whole world of pilotgear collectors out there around the world i was very surprised to find a healthy amount of books about the subject. Here are 3 of the books i bought with at the left the "Flight Helmet Bible" :



About 650 pages of flight helmets and O2 masks here in glorious full color. And there's lots more where that came from. ;-)

Sure i would love to assist a seriously interested developer regarding pilot figures and their gear pertaining to a certain period but i suppose truly dedicated devs won't need any assistance. In any case *not* with pilot gear or anything like that (DCS and SCS got their F-4, F-15, F-16 pilot figures quite right and true, an F-5 pilot could also have been seen wearing an earlier HGU-33/P).

Assist with flight dynamics then ? Sure ! But while i enjoyed toying and tinkering around with that sort of black art in the days before FSX (pretty proud myself of a mandatory yaw damper i managed to create for my FS2K ATR42, yessir! ) i wouldn't even *think* about such a thing for MSFS. AFAIK it's a complete different ball game and by the 'feel' of some of MSFS aircraft's flightmodels an extremely complex and difficult ball game at that !

I'll stick to my flight helmets, Denny, complicated enough, hehe... And thanks again for your friendly words. Highly appreciated !

[keithb77]

Continuing with the HSI functionality, not described in the manual, and not strictly accurate for the F-5 but incredibly useful, the HSI supports an MSFS flight plan in NAV mode.
Load the plan (search for low-level at f.to for some good low-level ones), select NAV mode for the HSI and the HSI will step through the waypoints as you pass them.
CDI needle points at the waypoint and the distance to run counts down as for a VOR or TACAN, at 2 miles to run the next waypoint is loaded and the new course and distance indicated (best count to 10 before turning to allow for the 2-mile offset).
If your direction is correct but the needle shows a deviation you are off track on the other side.
Note this isn't in any way an autopilot, just an aid to allow you to fly the valleys and fjords at low-level with purpose.


Strictly this simulates an inertial navigation unit which the F5 didn't have but it really expands the use of the F5 and the mission profiles you can simulate, especially given the difficulties getting real maps into VR, so it's fine by me


Combined with the MAP mode on the radar then things get too easy as your track is also shown on the radar scope. TBH I'd do without the track if I could...