SC Designs F5E just released

[DaveKDEN]

Just took a quick test flight with it. Overall, it has great potential, but I'm sorry to say it seems it was released a bit early. Some cockpit functionality just isn't working properly. Nose gear extends on ground with the switch, but won't retract in flight before trying to retract the gear. The course and heading knobs on the HSI don't seem to be working for me. Maybe the F-5E doesn't have them (I simply don't know), but I don't see toe brake animation. As Cess pointed out, the drag chute handle "cockpit tip" is reversed. Could be other things, but these really stick out. Hoping that they'll release an update soon.
Caveat to my post - I didn't dig into the manual first, so it very well could be user error on my part with some of the items I've noticed.

[collensr]

From the screenshots (don't have it myself) it looks like Dean used the 1960's USAF HGU-2A/P(or 80's 26/P) flight helmet from his F-4 Phantom crew for his F-5E TigerII pilot( HGU-33 is the Navy/Marines variant) while it should've been the still current grey USAF HGU-55/P with MBU-20/P O2 mask that his F-15 and F-16 pilots are wearing. Maybe if asked nicely he will exchange them in a quick fix.

No buy for me, only interested in F-5A and -B (NF-5A/B to be exact)

Per my illustrations the Navy / Marine / TACAIR adversary crews fly with the white HGU-55 - The Swiss seem to use grey and white.

[keithb77]

The Nose lift works for me, down and up, though the switch is tricky to operate, at least in VR.
Supposedly it makes no difference in MSFS anyway.

Can't get the HSI CRS to do anything, or the HSI to track VOR or Tacan, these ARE supposed to work I think.

Having trouble with the flaps, Auto doesn't seem to work (ie flaps don't operate automatically with speed) and the indicator goes UP-Auto-Full when there are several intermediate positions.

Also pretty sure the rudder secondary effect is reversed, left rudder causing a roll to the right and vice versa.
Makes circuits and low speed work untidy.
DC's F4 Phantom works correctly, which is good because in the Real F4 you are supposed to use rudder to roll at high AOA as stick-roll can stall the wing.

Chucks guide to the (DCS) F-5E - could be useful
https://assets.chucksguides.com/pdf/...II%20Guide.pdf

USAF F5EF POH
https://www.docdroid.com/51orrvC/nor...ght-manual-pdf

[Tom Clayton]

I'd love to see just how big her Community folder is by now...

[DaveKDEN]

After further consideration, I hate to say, but I'd recommend people save their money on this until SC Designs pushes out an update. I've never considered myself what I call a "rivet counter" (one who thinks ever small detail needs to be perfect on a payware release), but this F-5E is perhaps one of the biggest disappointments I've ever seen. I own the F-15 and F-16 models, and have been generally satisfied with them, but after waiting for the final release of this F-5E model, I can honestly say they should have delayed even further and done more beta testing before release. I don't want to come across as a complainer, as I've owned tons of payware aircraft over the years (I started with FS98, and have owned every version since). Having said that, I believe this model has potential, but it needs a serious update before I'd recommend anyone buy it.

[Priller]

After further consideration, I hate to say, but I'd recommend people save their money on this until SC Designs pushes out an update. I've never considered myself what I call a "rivet counter" (one who thinks ever small detail needs to be perfect on a payware release), but this F-5E is perhaps one of the biggest disappointments I've ever seen. I own the F-15 and F-16 models, and have been generally satisfied with them, but after waiting for the final release of this F-5E model, I can honestly say they should have delayed even further and done more beta testing before release. I don't want to come across as a complainer, as I've owned tons of payware aircraft over the years (I started with FS98, and have owned every version since). Having said that, I believe this model has potential, but it needs a serious update before I'd recommend anyone buy it.

I own most of his models and quite frankly, since MSFS, all of them have been a disappointment. This is probably the last model of SC/DC designs that I'll ever buy. The external texturing isn't even up to FSX standards.

Priller

[DaveKDEN]

I own most of his models and quite frankly, since MSFS, all of them have been a disappointment. This is probably the last model of SC/DC designs that I'll ever buy. The external texturing isn't even up to FSX standards.

Priller

Agreed completely on this F-5. It's honestly sad, as I was really looking forward to this model...

[dvj]

After further consideration, I hate to say, but I'd recommend people save their money on this until SC Designs pushes out an update. I've never considered myself what I call a "rivet counter" (one who thinks ever small detail needs to be perfect on a payware release), but this F-5E is perhaps one of the biggest disappointments I've ever seen. I own the F-15 and F-16 models, and have been generally satisfied with them, but after waiting for the final release of this F-5E model, I can honestly say they should have delayed even further and done more beta testing before release. I don't want to come across as a complainer, as I've owned tons of payware aircraft over the years (I started with FS98, and have owned every version since). Having said that, I believe this model has potential, but it needs a serious update before I'd recommend anyone buy it.

Very well stated. My sentiments exactly on many payware offerings.

[collensr]

I've bought it as it is a jet that I have a close affinity with in the real world.

However, having looked at it in my hanger and in the sim I have to say the base textures are really poor and that, alongside my previous comments on the pilot figure, make it unlikely to inspire me to even bother to use it at this stage. I have so little time to fly the sim and there are so many other great aircraft to fly.

I do want to support Dean and I enjoy his F-16's but so far out 'of the box' this has been really uninspiring.

[keithb77]

On a positive note I've got the Tacan to work - there is a knob above the Tacan unit labelled UHF, twist it to the vertical position (labelled Main) and the tooltip Tacan is displayed and the CRS knob and HSI work, twist it right (between Main and Both) tooltip VOR is displayed , further right is VOR2. The actual labels for Tacan and VOR etc are much further round, basically the scale of twisting the knob doesn't match the labels.
The knob is actually the UHF mode selector and labelled as such, as per the USAF POH pg 1-31, the Nav mode selector is on the panel below the Tacan, blank on the SC F5. They've agreed to look into it.

Personally I'm quite happy with the SC F5, it flies well and as a VR flyer the only textures I really care about are in the cockpit, and in the F5 case the Lima's on the wingtips - and they're good
There are some bugs to fix (I've fixed the drag-chute tooltips, a simple change to an XML file) but I'm sure they will do that.
I'm surprised at the negative reactions - surely the other two 'F-5's are much worse?

[Cees Donker]

I'd love to see just how big her Community folder is by now...

She is not very positive about this addon. I like the plane. It's perhaps not really as it should be, but there will be an update that will fix most flaws if not all, I'm sure of that.



Cees

[keithb77]

Thought the AvAngel review was pretty rubbish, main comments were the aircraft was 'rolly' (I'm not seeing any roll instability, maybe she had a pre-release version), external textures weren't the best, doesn't turn like an F16 (looks at those wings, it wasn't designed to dogfight - the guns are for shooting down bombers), and because she didn't know what an ACMI pod was it must be wrong.

Only flight model issue I'm seeing is the secondary rudder effect is reversed, but nobody believes me...maybe only glider pilots notice this....

[GO_Navy]

I am thinking about doing a mix -

Taking cockpit of this aircraft, exterior from VZP F-5, and my own update on flight dynamics to make a better F-5 for the sim. That should be good.

[DaveKDEN]

The Nose lift works for me, down and up, though the switch is tricky to operate, at least in VR.
Supposedly it makes no difference in MSFS anyway.

Can't get the HSI CRS to do anything, or the HSI to track VOR or Tacan, these ARE supposed to work I think.

Having trouble with the flaps, Auto doesn't seem to work (ie flaps don't operate automatically with speed) and the indicator goes UP-Auto-Full when there are several intermediate positions.

Also pretty sure the rudder secondary effect is reversed, left rudder causing a roll to the right and vice versa.
Makes circuits and low speed work untidy.
DC's F4 Phantom works correctly, which is good because in the Real F4 you are supposed to use rudder to roll at high AOA as stick-roll can stall the wing.

Chucks guide to the (DCS) F-5E - could be useful
https://assets.chucksguides.com/pdf/...II%20Guide.pdf

USAF F5EF POH
https://www.docdroid.com/51orrvC/nor...ght-manual-pdf

Rudder effect is definitely reversed. The visual deflection of the rudder is correct, but right rudder input causes left yaw/roll and visa versa. I can't figure out the Auto flaps either. I got the HDG knob to adjust, but can't get the course to work. I figured out how to get the nose gear extend/retract option to work - you use the scroll wheel on your mouse vs. left click grab and drag like most other aircraft. I'm honestly trying my best to figure this out, as I'd like to enjoy flying it, but so far it's very disappointing.

[Barfly]

Also surprised at all the negativity - this release has flying characteristics closer to a real T-38/F5 than anything I've experienced in any MSFS variant, including the T38 myself and several others here helped Milviz make quite a while back. There are certainly a number of visual issues, functional switch problems, and the before-mentioned rudder roll oddity, but overall I haven't had this much fun with a sim aircraft in quite a while! Spent some time beating up the pattern with it in a spectacularly sloppy, if workable fashion.

[GO_Navy]

Also surprised at all the negativity - this release has flying characteristics closer to a real T-38/F5 than anything I've experienced in any MSFS variant, including the T38 myself and several others here helped Milviz make quite a while back. There are certainly a number of visual issues, functional switch problems, and the before-mentioned rudder roll oddity, but overall I haven't had this much fun with a sim aircraft in quite a while! Spent some time beating up the pattern with it in a spectacularly sloppy, if workable fashion.

So I’m guessing you’re a T-38 pilot who helped put this together or are you the F-5 pilot who helped with the flight dynamics?

[GO_Navy]

Well, here’s to IFE or Heatblur putting together a better F-5 for MSFS2024.

[Barfly]

No a guy name John Visser did the flight test, and another group of guys did the FM, according to the manual.

[JohnC]

I remember spending years developing the flight mechanics of the old Aersoft F-14. It was a deep collaboration with a flight engineer who worked with Lockheed Martin, three former Tomcat pilots, and about five other former combat aviators. I always found Greg's observations insightful and valuable, and that won't change here. Yes textures are pleasant for the eye, but I will choose coherent flight mechanics every time.

[DennyA]

Add me to the “likes it” crowd. Systems feel good, and the flight model (other than the rudder thing) feels top-notch. Inside the plane looks great, and I don’t fly from the external view, though it’s fun to pop out and look at the plane occasionally.

Textures outside might not be jaw dropping, but once the paint kit hits I imagine we’ll have the usual wonderful selection of optional liveries to choose from.

I guess I’m a rarity around here in caring more about the authenticity of the flying experience than the texture density. I’d expect that from the official forum, but I thought the fellow old fogies here were more about how the plane flies than the eye candy.

(Edit: Or, what JohnC wrote just above me. There are a few of us, I guess!)

[jmig]

Also surprised at all the negativity - this release has flying characteristics closer to a real T-38/F5 than anything I've experienced in any MSFS variant, including the T38 myself and several others here helped Milviz make quite a while back. There are certainly a number of visual issues, functional switch problems, and the before-mentioned rudder roll oddity, but overall I haven't had this much fun with a sim aircraft in quite a while! Spent some time beating up the pattern with it in a spectacularly sloppy, if workable fashion.

Which, in my opinion, is the reason most developers have left. I remember when we had scores of developers here contributing to the threads. I have also noticed, if my survey of one is correct, the absence of many onetime regulars.

As I look around in MS2020’s forum, most of the threads are about new releases or pending releases, usually WWII and earlier era aircraft. Now there is nothing wrong with those threads. The original purpose of the forum was older warbirds. However, we once had a much more dynamic and vibrant forum. Sadly, I don’t see that anymore.

Maybe, what I see is a natural progression. I have been a member of this forum for over a decade and a half. In all that time, I have never seen a lower number of people posting. I am afraid SOS is dying. I don’t want to see it die. It has too much history. I have made a lot of internet friends on SOH. Again, most are no longer here.

As for the F-5E. It was based on the T-38. I assume it flies a lot like the T-38. If I recall correctly, the T-38’s roll rate was like 720 degrees a second. I remember how it would bang your head against the canopy if you weren’t the PIC and he didn’t warn you before rolling. I don’t think MSFS can truly simulate a fighter type aircraft.

Dean, from DC Designs, doesn’t even claim to fully represent his fighters. He has stated over and over that he builds fun to fly aircraft, not study level, DCS realism. To expect the F-5 to be any different is like expecting your house cat to be a tiger.

One legitimate criticism, in my opinion, are the scarcity of working items like heading and course knobs. I don’t own the aircraft yet, so I can’t test the knobs. (Besides, I use cockpit controls to simulate course and heading controls, so I don’t worry about them, so long as I can find a sim event or LVAR to set them.) Still, I think the basic functions should be there.

I will give Dean credit for fixing many early release bugs on his other models. I admire him for going back and updating, upgrading his models, I fully expect he will do the same for the F-5E.

[GO_Navy]

Off topic a bit but when did the Ryzen 8700X3D get released? You a beta tester for AMD?

[Cees Donker]

'Which, in my opinion, is the reason most developers have left.' I agree with you 100%!



Cees

[keithb77]

HDG and CRS knobs DO 'work', BUT...

CRS knob rotates but only changes the CDI needle direction if Tacan or VOR mode active, in R/L it works all the time and you would also use the CDI needle as an aide memoire to indicate runway direction for T/O, circuits, landings and cross-country.
I don't think a physical knob (Honeycomb?) to set CRS will help...

HDG works but with no autopilot (correctly I think) it has no effect, and the bug is a bit too small for a visual aid.

Roll rate is as fast as you would want it

Bug reporting is now active on their discord, I've reported the Rudder and CRS knob issues, hopefully they will be addressed.

[keithb77]

Apparently Bugs are defined as GAME/PRODUCT breaking issues that stop/inhibit use, everything else has to be in the discussion channel, so my two bugs have been deleted ...