B17s Falre Recall and big groups/boxes
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Thread: B17s Falre Recall and big groups/boxes

  1. #1
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    B17s Falre Recall and big groups/boxes

    Further to my efforts to recreate Schweinfurt Regensberg missions.

    1. We have ai Flare and ai Recall B17s which have effects in the effects section of the xdp files, but can I make a player ac to have these effects working? In fact how do the ai ones work; I forget?

    2. I am trying to build up first Combat Wings and then task forces for the Schweinfurt mission with approx 120 aircraft/Task Force, 240 odd in all. At the moment working on 1 wing. the 102nd Combat Wing. I am basically getting the Squadrons and Bomb Groups to join up by getting them together in various loitering waypoints with same Lat/Lon values but different heights and then working out speeds so that they all arrive at the coastal waypoint at the same time, as well as subsequent waypoints. This I achieve in the mission builder and the mission xml file, but on testing, it seems that even the player bomb group doesn't stick together after the loitering wp. I will continue to work on it, but it;s not as easy as I though to keep tight formations, even if not exactly ideal in shape.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  2. #2
    James

    Steve (o-1 driver) developed that for my templates of racetrack assembly which should be in the mission files. My recollection is that once the ai reached a certain elevation the flare was triggered. I only recall that being set up with the b-24s. (but that was a long time ago.)

    You will find the missions with assembly in the 1944 history mission folder.
    I also recall that John produced some special paint schemes for the aircraft that set up the rally. Can't remember the special name of the aircraft that the bomb groups used to guide the flights to the rally point then returned to the base.
    Last edited by rbp71854; March 14th, 2024 at 21:36.
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  3. #3
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbp71854 View Post
    James

    Steve (o-1 driver) developed that for my templates of racetrack assembly which should be in the mission files. My recollection is that once the ai reached a certain elevation the flare was triggered. I only recall that being set up with the b-24s. (but that was a long time ago.)

    You will find the missions with assembly in the 1944 history mission folder.
    I also recall that John produced some special paint schemes for the aircraft that set up the rally. Can't remember the special name of the aircraft that the bomb groups used to guide the flights to the rally point then returned to the base.
    Your para 1.
    We have b17 flare and recall within the ai_B-17G-80_002 folder. The only difference between ai_AvH_B-17G-80_002.xdp and ai_AvH_B-17G-80_002_flare.xdp is the effects line <Effect Type="Track" EffectName="fx_assembly_flare" PosX="0.00" PosZ="-0.08" PosY="0.84" MinVel="60" MaxVel="80"></Effect> Now they do have their own m3d files but these are identical in content.

    The recall ai just has the added effect line <Effect Type="Track" EffectName="fx_recall_flare" PosX="0.00" PosZ="-0.08" PosY="0.84" MinVel="60" MaxVel="80"></Effect>

    I don't understand "templates of racetrack assembly which should be in the mission files" as don't see anything in 1944 missions which seems to fit.

    Your para 2.

    I see HH missions which I have looked at before and don't do what I want in the sense that I don't see the close grouping of ac to boxes, wings, and task forces.
    LBS was the other big mission collection, but not relevant as he was interested in other types of missions.
    Am I missing something?

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  4. #4
    Checkout 1943 mission/training folder for Bassingborne race track. This was the basis for HH missions. Perhaps its not what you were looking for, but it is the way that they got the groups to assemble.
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  5. #5
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbp71854 View Post
    Checkout 1943 mission/training folder for Bassingborne race track. This was the basis for HH missions. Perhaps its not what you were looking for, but it is the way that they got the groups to assemble.
    If you have that handy could you copy the text here. I don't seem to have it in any of my ETO installs.

    Any missions with the B17 or B25 flares?

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  6. #6

    Bassingborne_ race_ track.xml

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
    <!--Combat Flight Sim mission-->
    <Mission>
    <Params Version="3.0" Directive="strike" Country="USA" Aircraft="avh_b-17g-80_002" Airbase="46080" Date="1/13/1943" Time="07:35" Weather="England Med Fog-France Clear.xml" Multiplayer="y" MultiplayerOnly="n"/>
    <Title>bassinborne_race track master</Title>
    <SubTitle>E</SubTitle>
    <Overview>On January 13, 1943 the Eighth Air Force conducted mission #29 to damage steel, locomotive works, and the marshalling yard at Lillie France. You will have fighter escort from the 4th FG. Your bombing altitude is 24,000ft.</Overview>
    <Intelligence>You can expect heavy flak and fighter opposition.</Intelligence>
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    </AirFormation>
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    </Mission>
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  7. #7

    91BG_01-13-43_lille_Strike.xml

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
    <!--Combat Flight Sim mission-->
    <Mission>
    <Params Version="3.0" Directive="strike" Country="USA" Aircraft="avh_b-17g-80_002" Airbase="sta121" Date="1/13/1943" Time="08:35" Weather="England Med Fog-France Clear.xml" Multiplayer="y" MultiplayerOnly="n"/>
    <Title>91st BG 01-13-43 Lille Locomotive Works Strike </Title>
    <SubTitle>Eighth Air Force mission #29 to damage steel, locomotive works, and marshalling yard at Lillie, France. </SubTitle>
    <Overview>On January 13, 1943 the Eighth Air Force conducted mission #29 to damage steel, locomotive works, and the marshalling yard at Lillie France. You will have fighter escort from the 4th FG. Your bombing altitude is 24,000ft.</Overview>
    <Intelligence>You can expect heavy flak and fighter opposition.</Intelligence>
    <AirFormation ID="6005" Directive="strike" Country="USA" Skill="2" FormType="diamond">
    <Unit ID="9615" Type="ai_avh_b-17g-80_002" Skill="2"/>
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    <Unit ID="9617" Type="ai_avh_b-17g-80_002" Skill="2"/>
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    <Facility ID="9208" Type="rail_marshalling_small2" Lat="N50*36'53.1196&quot;" Lon="E3*6'20.3106&quot;" heading="193" Country="Germany" Points="1" DamagePercent="40" IsHidden="y" Spawns="railtraffic.spawns" IsOneShot="y"/>
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    </Mission>
    Game Rig(Nalu): AMD 4800+ 64x2, Asus A8N-SLI Premium, Silverstone 560W, 1Gx4 Corsair Twin2048, 2x Asus EN7900GTX SLI, 4xWD 74G 10Krpm Sata II RAID0, Audigy 4, Trackir4, ch pedals & yoke, db XPPro x64/Vista
    HTPC(BossHog): Intel P3.0GHz Prescott E, Asus P4P800-E Deluxe, Toughpower 700W, 1Gx2 Samsung DDR, AOpen 6600GT AGP, 2x80G IDESeagate Cavier RAID1, HighPoint Rocket Raid 2220, 6x 400G Sata Seagate Baracuda Raid5, 2x500g Seagate JBOD, XP Media Center 2005

  8. #8

    North-Pickenham_Racetrack_Assembly.xml

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
    <!--Combat Flight Sim mission-->
    <Mission>
    <Params Version="3.0" Directive="nothing" Country="USA" Aircraft="tubarao" Airbase="NP044" Date="6/4/1944" Time="03:45" Weather="Calais Weather Cloudy.xml" Multiplayer="y" MultiplayerOnly="n"/>
    <Title>North Pickenham Racetrack Assembly</Title>
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  9. #9
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    Thanks for those. I'll have a look see.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  10. #10
    I can't seem to find the B-24 with the flare option. I clearly remember John painted it yellow. I am wondering if it was a firepower ac.
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  11. #11
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    OK I see what the racetrack does; in a way a more detailed idea than getting all the squadrons to join together at a 'loitering' point; in the end they all end up with the same coordinates with different altitudes, which is what I do. As Ive alreday developped the mission with a whole combat wing doing it my way, I'll leave that as it already took a long time, but I might try with other wings.


    BTW, the North-Pickenham_Racetrack_Assembly has [aircraft] Type="hare" and Type="aif_rage" which don't make any sense to me unless they are some kind of place marker names.

    WRT the flare ac I will have to see how to add that.

    I have a B-25_flare; is that what you meant to say?

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose View Post

    BTW, the North-Pickenham_Racetrack_Assembly has [aircraft] Type="hare" and Type="aif_rage" which don't make any sense to me unless they are some kind of place marker names.

    WRT the flare ac I will have to see how to add that.

    I have a B-25_flare; is that what you meant to say?
    Hare and rage were probably the firepower B-24s
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  13. #13
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    Ah! In any case I am reworking the whole first Bomb Group and Wing using the racetrack as seems more aesthetically correct. A pain in the butt though!

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  14. #14

    8th Airforce Tactical operations pdf.

    James found this while doing some research for air operations in PNG, also a link for you which may hold more stuff that you might be interested in.

    https://www.afhra.af.mil/Information...tudies-51-100/
    Attached Files Attached Files
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  15. #15
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    Thanks. I'll check them out.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

  16. #16
    SOH-CM-2023 mongoose's Avatar
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    So, using the race track method, I have discovered that there is a limit to the number of waypoints, meaning either the BG squadrons race track is cut in wps or the BGs themselves have to join up through loitering wps to make the Combat Wings. That at least is what I will do for this, 102nd Combat Wing.

    Cato said "Carthaginem esse delendam"
    I say "Carthago iam diu deleta,sed enim Bellum Alium adhuc aedificandum est"

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