Touchingcloud Airshow Assistant. Anybody ??.....
Atleast it *looks* much more versatile than FlightControlReplay. Aircraft don't look like being tied together as much as with FCR.
https://youtu.be/uHB4CoIaJ6g?si=f7YYmrAf_gLOFBE0
Oh, and it's free too.... https://msfs.touching.cloud/mods/air...wz00vTrRsNphoQ
( possibly v2.1 is free, v2.2 at Marketplace $4.99, free demo )
Yes, I've been using it for the past couple of days. Posted a couple of shots in the screenshot thread. Does seem to work quite well. Only draw back is the aircraft in the formation are copies of your own aircraft, but apparently they'll be adding the ability to have different aircraft in a future update.
I'm just using the free version, not sure if there's any difference with the market place version. I don't mind paying for it, but I'd rather it was not through the market place.
can you make the copy, and then change aircraft, so that you can have different aircraft flying together, like with Flight Control Replay, which I used for this shot:Originally Posted by DaveWG
COGEA (00007) by JanKees Blom, on Flickr
or will the copy make the change as well so you end up with identical copies?
You can find most of my repaints for FSX/P3D in the library here on the outhouse.
For MFS paints go to flightsim.to
Don't know, to be honest, I haven't tried that. I'll have a go this evening.
Thank you, Dave !
If you have FlightControlReplay as well which of the two would you prefer to work with ? ( i haven't touched FCR for quite a while now, i find it very cumbersome to work with especially 'Fly-By'. I know it's still beta but setting up a fly-by with the MSFS Drone camera is even easier... That says something !)
Btw, i tried to have a look at the screenies you've made with Airshow Assistant but search only returns text, no piccies.... Do you have a page number maybe ?
Thanks again!
Thanks for the heads-up guys, I will try it this weekend.
I see that with the latest version 2.3.0, released just today, you can select different liveries for your wingmen. That's a big improvement, not as good as being able to pick a different type, but still good. It looks like you can now opt to be one of the wingmen as well, not just lead.
In the video it looks like the wingmen switch from trail (or whatever you specify as "ground" formation) to echelon ("flight" formation) when the gear are raised, and vice versa? Is that how that works?
Would be interested in what realism settings people find useful for realistic wingman behavior.
August
The livery selection in 2.3.0 seems a bit iffy at the moment, although it is still a beta feature, so I expect it will improve. I've only tried a couple of aircraft so far, but with the default F/A18 it would only find 2 liveries, and with the Hawk, it said it couldn't find any!
It's still very much work-in-progress, but it's moving in the right direction.
Having played with this last night, I see you are right. I was unable to find any aircraft that had any other liveries loadable.
I thought the issue might be that it looks only for other liveries that share the same folders and aircraft.cfg, but when I tried spawning with one of the stock skins from an Asobo plane, knowing there were more, it still didn't work.
Starting to see some visual issues as I try different planes, too. Sometimes the configuration or loadout is wrong, the flaps are always down, the gear are always up, etc. And where there would be a custom tail number, there is that white box that you also see when such planes are used as AI traffic.
Those types of issues used to happen in Lorby AITracker as well, which I used for the same purpose in P3D. This works at least as well as that, probably better.
Ground behavior can be fun/humorous as it tries to get into the right position when you taxi. I only turn on the wingmen when I'm on the runway. Landing in tight line astern formation doesn't seem like a real good idea to me, but that is how the B-17s do it in Masters of the Air, so it must be accurate.
The ability to select a formation position other than lead works well, and I enjoy that. This is already a fun addon if used carefully, even with some bugs yet to be smushed.
August
After some further play, some tips on using this for wingmen.
If you want your wingmen to be properly configured for your flight, wait till you take off and get your plane cleaned up, then spawn them. Some types will copy your plane's animations for landing gear, etc., and others will not. But mostly they spawn in the same state your plane is in when they spawn, so if they get stuck, that's the state they'll stay in.
Don't be afraid to max out your wingmen's formation skills by setting Realism and Reacton Delay to the minimum and Acceleration and Maneuverability to the maximum. The wingmen still don't look locked in place at these settings, and they won't lose position and have to fly around you as much. I especially recommend this if you need really good close station-keeping, i.e. Blue Angels, or with sensitive aircraft like the Pitts. If you just want a realistic military-like loose formation, you can leave everything in the middle. If you want to be #2 or lower in the formation, I suggest lowering at least Reaction Delay to the minimum. That way the "leader" reacts to your moves fast enough that you can imagine he is leading you.
Don't set your expectations too high for team aerobatics. With all of the responsiveness parameters maxed, you can do nice formation rolls (meaning each plane rolls individually in position, not that the whole formation rolls). Vertical stuff like formation loops does not work well because the wingmen positions are relative just to the position and direction of your plane, not to its orientation.
On the other hand, I can tell you that buzzing the Pensacola runway in the slot position of a tight diamond of F-18s, in VR, is enough to provoke a biological reaction. Stadium flyovers, airshow formation passes - very fun.
August
Thank you very much, August, exactly what i was looking for ! I mean your screenie of being a wingman for 221... No fun at all if the whole point of formation flying all happens behind you. Not much of a leader myself anyway.
Still, no real formation flying just yet, is it... And i've been wondering for years if we will ever have the opportunity to participate in *real* formation flying in our beloved virtual flying world. Quite remarkable for a computer program called 'Flight Simulator' that has been around for almost 40 years !
IIRC in the late 80's begin 90's here comes a program called "Red Arrows!" Ok then, finally ! Yeah, right..... As it happend with almost every flightsimulation related proggy next to any FS version it turned out to be highly dissatisfactory and removed from the HD before one could say "Go!".
Not so with the other highly anticipated (atleast by me..) 'special branch' of aviation: Aerobatics ! Developed by 'Looking Glass', released in 1995 and especially created around Aerobatics a truly fantastic program called "Flight Unlimited !". It would teach you how to fly the various aerobatic manouvres with a fully qualified aerobatics pilot/instructor sitting next to you. Can't tell how much fun i've had with that program. Very well put together and AFAIK pretty succesful amongst flightsim aficionados (followed up by Flight Unlimited II, a regular flightsim, very nice too, particularly for those days).
The big question: why couldn't this be made to work with FS and STILL can't be made to work with MSFS ??... True, Flight Unlimited Aerobatics took place in various confined areas completely focused on aerobatics only. I could really imagine some flight dynamics guru at Aces would've been able to take FU's flight dynamics apart and integrate some of it to f.i. make a 'knife edge pass' possible in FS. It was surely possible in FU ! Well, turned out in 2024 it still isn't possible. Sad, really, isn't it..
Ok, i'll get off my soapbox now but thanks again for the wingman tip, August, atleast that's something, love it !
Last edited by Javis; March 10th, 2024 at 00:24.
I can imagine like every flightsimmer, haven't you been waiting for something flightsimulator specific for years and years and finally, seemingly out of the blue Whooptidoo!! There it is ??!!! Next half hour you have a hard time believing that it's true !
I sure have had a couple thru the years and FS editions and yesterday, during watching that new IFE Tornado promo video i had another one !!
I can now fly the number 4 position in a 4 ship Echelon Right formation flight !! Moly Holy Ahoo,hoo !!
And that was just normal 2D. I can't even imagine how this'll turn out in VR !!
I mean, what's so fantastic about formation flying if you're in the lead and you only have the perception that you are actually flying in formation by having to awkwardly looking over your shoulder all the time. Flying at the #4 position is a totally different ball game ! It is all i wished for ever since i bought that 'Red Arrows' flightsim thingy 4 decades ago ! (which looked terrible of course). Never materialized until now !! Ok, still not there, just sort of a gimmick of course but WOW!! What a great gimmick it is !!
It's the new Airshow Assistant version 2.5 ! There's more next to this wonderful new 'Select Position' option, f.i. i believe you can have your formation aircraft in different paints/reg numbers, possibly even different aircraft (sofar i didn't have time to examine this update any further of course..;-)
You can get the Demo for free and buy the full version (like 4 euro or something, of which 'a steal' is the understatement of the year IMHO) at Marketplace.
Off for more investigation. THANKS A MILLION "TOUCHING CLOUD" !!!
Having played with this last night, I see you are right. I was unable to find any aircraft that had any other liveries loadable.
I thought the issue might be that it looks only for other liveries that share the same folders and aircraft.cfg, but when I tried spawning with one of the stock skins from an Asobo plane, knowing there were more, it still didn't work.
Starting to see some visual issues as I try different planes, too. Sometimes the configuration or loadout is wrong, the flaps are always down, the gear are always up, etc. And where there would be a custom tail number, there is that white box that you also see when such planes are used as AI traffic.
Those types of issues used to happen in Lorby AITracker as well, which I used for the same purpose in P3D. This works at least as well as that, probably better.
Ground behavior can be fun/humorous as it tries to get into the right position when you taxi. I only turn on the wingmen when I'm on the runway. Landing in tight line astern formation doesn't seem like a real good idea to me, but that is how the B-17s do it in Masters of the Air, so it must be accurate.
The ability to select a formation position other than lead works well, and I enjoy that. This is already a fun addon if used carefully, even with some bugs yet to be smushed.
August
Great screen shot!
As a big fan of precision and formation flying, it was cool to first see this in the Tornado preview video. Especially being able to be other than lead in the formation. How does that use case work? Are you still leading the formation, just from the non-lead position?
Wondering too if there’s a good in flight refuelling addon. Not just to magically top up the tank, but with a visual representation of a tanker aircraft.
Thx.
@ Delta Lima : I have been trying to respond to your posts earlier but it seems your posts just won't come thru to the editor... I know it's often caused by punctuation marks but i even tried removing them from your post and still it wouldn't show in the editor.... Maybe it doesn't like Lima or Delta or both...
DL wrote : As a big fan of precision and formation flying, it was cool to first see this in the Tornado preview video. Especially being able to be other than lead in the formation.
Great video !! Oh, yes, i thought this can't be ! Am i dreaming !?? Then i noticed the menu had changed considerably compared to what i had. You could just fill in the number you'd want your position to be in the formation. Wow!! Magic !!
Yes, you keep on leading the formation no matter what position you're in.
Re in flight refuelling, i think now this position choice in a formation flight has become possible in flight refuelling might just be possible sooner or later too.
The future looks good, atleast virtual !
Hi Jan,@ Delta Lima : I have been trying to respond to your posts earlier but it seems your posts just won't come thru to the editor... I know it's often caused by punctuation marks but i even tried removing them from your post and still it wouldn't show in the editor.... Maybe it doesn't like Lima or Delta or both...
DL wrote : As a big fan of precision and formation flying, it was cool to first see this in the Tornado preview video. Especially being able to be other than lead in the formation.
Great video !! Oh, yes, i thought this can't be ! Am i dreaming !?? Then i noticed the menu had changed considerably compared to what i had. You could just fill in the number you'd want your position to be in the formation. Wow!! Magic !!
Yes, you keep on leading the formation no matter what position you're in.
Re in flight refuelling, i think now this position choice in a formation flight has become possible in flight refuelling might just be possible sooner or later too.
The future looks good, atleast virtual !
Re the forum software, I'm not sure either. I find depending on the device, I either can't edit or quote my own post; it'll either open the post with none of my content, or when it does, posting the edits results in a duplicate post, which I then delete. Weird.
Anyway, thanks for the reply - it sounds like when in #2 slot, your control inputs steer the leader on a delay, giving the illusion of him leading? I guess absent an AI or prerecorded track, this is the only way. The fellow in the Tornado video mentions it doesn't work great in approach / landing, so I'm not sure how flying chase flights on a (future, if released) X-15, lifting body, Shuttle, or even a Darkstar would be possible, but just for practicing formation flying would be a good tool.
For me, an A2A refueling tool would be best if a call in an AI aircraft to fly a track, as I was just starting to do in P3D with the great Lorby PayloadManagerX utility. As with carrier ops and other niche use cases, developers are slowly entering with MSFS oriented tools over time. Since my sim interest is very niche-within-a-niche, I'll have to patiently wait.
cheers,
dl
I used to be able to fly as #2 or other in a formation in DCS, with the leader following a flight-plan, you can probably still do it.
Create a multi-aircraft flight with you leading, then edit the created mission file with notepad and change the position of the player aircraft.
The AI tend to go around-the-houses a lot and faff about so I gave up.
TH Lorby PayloadManagerX and SWS Carrier Landing tools were great in P3D.
But this looks great for MSFS, will try it tomorrow
Any non-standard US ASCII characters will throw the edit and quote functions off. Some people like to compose in another editor like Word and then paste into the board, but the first slanted quotation mark or apostrophe will kill the quote/edit feature.
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Great for airshow flybys and the like, great in VR, aerobatics tend to throw it a bit - the AI change sides when you invert in a loop or barrel-roll for instance!
On first attempt I thought 'tactical' flying wasn't going to work - quite frightening weaving knife-edge through the valleys and fjords low-level as #2, as the loony lead flings himself all over the place trying to stay in position and (mostly) avoid flying into the ground. Doesn't try very hard to avoid flying into you though!
Using a heavier aircraft, spreading out the formation to 100% and changing the formation type to Fluid helps a lot, flying #2 in a Phantom pair through the Mach loop in VR was just great, as said below it's a long step towards what we've been dreaming of for many, many years
Take off and landings can be a bit chaotic, especially landings with the AI zig-zagging down the runway.
The problem is that the AI exaggerates your minor movements, with each extra AI doubling the effect - flying at #4 is challenging to keep it so gentle that #1 has a chance!
Using the Offset formation for 'ground' (ie when your wheels are down) helps a bit at least for a two-ship.
Recommended, especially in VR
VERY tempted to try this one! When I read that it is only like 4 USD, the price is no show stopper!
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I agree with Keith, recommended, especially in VR. Even though when you are not the formation lead, the lead plane "follows you from ahead," it's less weird than you might think and very atmospheric. I would go as far as to say that there are not many better ways you can throw another $4 at your sim at the moment.
August
I read through the posts in this thread, but did not see a answer to the question about whether there is a difference between the Demo version and the Marketplace version? NC
I've only been using the "demo" version, and it appears fully functional, indeed it's updated regularly. It's now v2.6.1. I do want to buy it to support the developers, but not via the market place.
The latest version allows for different aircraft types in the formations, although the selection seems limited at the moment.
Works nicely with the IFE/Heatblur Tomcat.
Interestingly you can get the F14A into a flat spin (remember the movie...), the AI Tomcat follows you down, not spinning but with no forward speed.
What would be really good would be an option for the wingmen to maintain your altitude rather than your 'plane', ie not go high on an outside turn, low on an inside.
I guess it's on the Marketplace so that Xbox users can get it?
Airshow Assistant featuring freeware Milviz T-38 Talon review by Into The Blue Simulations :
https://youtu.be/fBH6hwH4qZk?si=8HJsyDHCUg2HUKPE
it's 60% off now. 2 euro's.
Cees
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