High end HOTAS users...

[DaveKDEN]

Do we have any high end HOTAS users here? I recently got the Turtle Beach Velocity One Flight Deck system, and while it's certainly a customizable product, to date I've been less than impressed by TB's support for it. Without taking too much time, it's not recognized within MSFS as a specific product, and there are actual limitations with it like scroll wheels not working for trim or zoom control, and the throttle quadrant display not being as flexible as I was led to believe. My biggest concern is reports of malfunctioning units after a week or two of use. While mine has worked so far, I don't want to be stuck with a lemon after 6 months of use. Anyway, I'm considering returning it before the 30 day trial period ends and ordering something else (like a Virpil or WinWing, etc...).
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
PS: I'd really like this product to succeed, as it has great potential. However, I don't want to be a beta tester for something that cost $375 (pre-order deal).

[DennyA]

I have a Winwing setup, and love it. Been able to map everything I've tried except, weirdly, trying to map VS +/- to a dial. Probably user error there, though. Hardware is solid and amazing -- better build quality than the TM Warthog, which is saying a lot.

Just know that, like the TB, there's no default mapping in MSFS, so you have to create a default config for each controller. I would guess TB will get a default in an SU or 2024, but Winwing/Virpil feel less likely to.

[DaveKDEN]

I have a Winwing setup, and love it. Been able to map everything I've tried except, weirdly, trying to map VS +/- to a dial. Probably user error there, though. Hardware is solid and amazing -- better build quality than the TM Warthog, which is saying a lot.

Just know that, like the TB, there's no default mapping in MSFS, so you have to create a default config for each controller. I would guess TB will get a default in an SU or 2024, but Winwing/Virpil feel less likely to.

Thanks Denny - WinWing is certainly high on my list.

[jmbiii]

Dave,
I've had the TB Flightdeck for two weeks. I had a little problem with the stick when I first set it up (my fault I believe) and contacted TB support. They got back to me in a little over 24 hours with a fix. There is certainly quite a lot you can do with all the bells & whistles.
About the trim - I found that the trim wheel is not a dial. Scrolling the wheel up actuates one switch and scrolling down actuates another. I mapped the up and down elevator trim keys to the wheel. Works like you are tapping a key on the keyboard. It works best if you scroll the wheel slowly - one click at a time.
For the zoom I've use one of the many hat switches.
I haven't really messed with the throttle display yet. I'm still figuring out how to make the Flightdeck do what I want. So many buttons to play with. Fun.

[DaveKDEN]

Dave,
I've had the TB Flightdeck for two weeks. I had a little problem with the stick when I first set it up (my fault I believe) and contacted TB support. They got back to me in a little over 24 hours with a fix. There is certainly quite a lot you can do with all the bells & whistles.
About the trim - I found that the trim wheel is not a dial. Scrolling the wheel up actuates one switch and scrolling down actuates another. I mapped the up and down elevator trim keys to the wheel. Works like you are tapping a key on the keyboard. It works best if you scroll the wheel slowly - one click at a time.
For the zoom I've use one of the many hat switches.
I haven't really messed with the throttle display yet. I'm still figuring out how to make the Flightdeck do what I want. So many buttons to play with. Fun.

Thanks - I'll try that with the trim wheel. There is certainly a huge learning curve with this thing. Like I said, I do want the product to be successful, but I've been consistently frustrated by it to date.

[rvn817j]

I purchased Winwing several weeks ago...fantastic (even better than my TM Warthog). I liked the setup so much I went on Amazon and acquired a Gazzyt sim pit frame. I then modified the sim pit with a wood structure to accommodate my MFG rudder peddles (just did that yesterday). I am now having my best ever home simulator experience and it is all the result of Winwing F-16EX stick and Orion 2 throttle (and Tobii eye tracker). Not much more to say! (BTW, Winwing seems to have a US inventory location. So, if in the US you can save big on shipping if it ships from the US inventory. I waited for a restock of the throttle base and saved $50!)

[Tom Clayton]

I'm old school I guess. I used an original Saitek X52 for years until it started getting a little glitchy. And even then, it wasn't the sensors, but the cable connection on the back of the stick half. I recently replaced it with a new Logitech-built X52, which I've hear isn't built with the same quality, but the one I received feels exactly the same. After a little use, I was confident enough to break the seal on the throttle side and remove the detent. My biggest reason for sticking with the same model is the fact that there are so many analog axes available. The rotary knobs on the throttle are set for prop pitch and mix/condition, and the slider is for spoilers/airbrakes. I have yet to see any other product that has enough axes to cover all of that.

[FAC257]

I'm also using an old Saitek X-52 that I think I've had since they were first released. It's always been reliable, except lately I've noticed the rudder input is slightly off to the right and I haven't found a way to get it centered again. Makes flying when not on autopilot a bit more work than it should be.


Forest

[Navy Chief]

For many years, I have used Saitek X52 setups, along with different Logitech series controls. In the beginning, I used CH Controls.

When I bought a new gaming PC last Nov., I decided it was time to upgrade, and bought a Warthog setup. Love it. Then, this past week, I bought a new Virpil Base, cyclic extension, and Hawk 60 Collective.

All I can say is it's a good thing my wife doesn't monitor my spending!! 🤣 NC

[Mach3DS]

Affirm. I"m running WinWing MFSSB Side Stick, Virpil CM2 Base + TM Hornet Center Stick, TMWH or WinWing Viper Throttle with Orion 2 Base. I couldn't be happier with WinWing Products. By far the best products I've used.

[keithb77]

I'm also using an old Saitek X-52 that I think I've had since they were first released. It's always been reliable, except lately I've noticed the rudder input is slightly off to the right and I haven't found a way to get it centered again. Makes flying when not on autopilot a bit more work than it should be.


Forest

Good excuse to lock the rudder (great feature of the X52) and get some pedals.

I've also been suing a VERY old X52 though lately I've shifted to an even older X45 (both needed the degraded 'rubber' finish removed with nail varnish remover) as it works without the throttle.

That's because I use a Honeycomb Throttle quadrant, bought in a moment of madness, that turns out to be very versatile and works for everything from gilders through GA and old jets and warbirds right through to prop and jet airliners.
The multiple axis and interchangeable levers allow almost any cockpit setup to be simulated in approximately correct position and movement to work naturally in VR.
E.G. the Phantom/T38 has axes for flap lever, 2 throttles and speedbrake, when the Tornado comes out it'll be the same plus wing sweep. And there is a good gear lever, and a very useful (if not so realistic) trim-wheel.

I've never really got on with all the buttons on the Saitek throttles, too much to remember. If I flew modern 'HOTAS' jets might be different.
The Honeycomb also has a load of buttons, which I don't use as I can't see them in VR.

Looking for a Warthog to replace the Saiteks, other top-end sticks don't seem to be available in the UK.

[jmig]

I don't know if the Thrustmaster Warthog throttles and stick are considered "Hi-End" or not. However, I have used them for many years. I had a Real Simulator F-16 side stick for a while but sold it and went back to the Thrustmaster Warthog stick.

I also have the Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo which I use for most GA flying. I really like them.

[keithb77]

jmig

I don't know if the Thrustmaster Warthog throttles and stick are considered "Hi-End" or not

Hmmmm, bit of research, you are right - 'medium-plus' then
Lost a couple of Ebay auctions so still looking - Virpil are available in the UK but eye-watering expensive, VKB and Winwing have to be imported at extra cost and risk, so keep trying for the Warthog...

Have the Honeycomb Alpha too, big improvement on the old yoke, but the pitch tension is ridiculous!

[tommieboy]

A slight thread veer...

I think I spent more on HOTAS and Rudder setups over the years than on the computer/monitors themselves. My rudder setups were always problematic due to quality control of the issues, no matter what brand. I also recall that in my FS2004 days, Limited Edition HOTAS releases far exceeded the $375 price point the OP mentioned. All but one of these setups have come and gone. No matter how expensive the setup was, I always had a Logitec Extreme 3D Pro as backup, and I still do. It's all I needed when I was farting around with repaints in FSX and needed to have a quick look-see in the sim. Still, I try to keep up with these threads as, hopefully, I'll get back into the swing of things once FS2024 gets released. I'm pretty sure I'll still have this Logitec Extreme 3D Pro as a backup.

Tommy

[spatialpro]

I watched this recently. Besides rating one stick over another etc I found the explanations near the start very insightful. It is 3 months old, so doesn't cover the Turtle Beach VelocityOne Flight Deck, but is has made me wary of buying one.

FWIW I've been using the same Saitek X52 Pro since March 2007.... 17 years now!

Andy

https://youtu.be/-scnzIQdCec?si=DQqOirSOSGg1N2ZD

[SH427]

I got lucky and picked up the TM Warthog stick and throttle at the very start of the pandemic (birthday in Feb, lockdowns started in Mar) and over time I went from TFRP pedals to MFG Crosswinds and I gotta say the Crosswinds are worth every penny, best money I've put my feet on. I also got desk mounts and an extension for the stick and throttle and watching the stick move 1:1 with the stick in a virtual cockpit is awesome.
I also modified the warthog's spring setup to be a little looser, combined with the weight of the extension and the grip, the stick has almost no centering force which makes flying WWI aircraft a little simpler, and makes flying DCS Helicopters a lot nicer and closer to reality.
Next step I think will be picking up a proper Virpil Collective so I can go full rotorhead

[IanHenry]

Are Virpil and other 'high end' devices any better than the Warthog, and if so, in what respect?

[DaveKDEN]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! Couple of notes/answers...
I have been using a Saitek X52 Pro for many years now. It's a good stick/throttle combo, but I want something that has (at least) two throttles, and (for me) the stick movement on the Saitek leaves a bit to be desired. I really don't like the spring resistance/centering of it. In that respect, the hall-effect controls of the V1 Flightdeck are really really nice and precise. Having said that, I plan on keeping the X52 as a backup just in case. I did try the Logitech X56 Pro as well as the Thrustmaster TCA Airbus stick and throttle, but returned both of them after a couple of days use. I've had more basic stick/throttle combos in the past that were fine for the time, but are just too limited in many respects. With the V1 Flightdeck I'm honestly 50/50 at this point. There has been more info about pending MSFS support for the V1, and a really good configuration YouTube video by "Huddison" that was just released (since I originally posted this thread). I have been able to configure my V1 quite a bit, but there are a couple of built in limitations to it that are frustrating (the throttle screen being mapped to specific keys on the keyboard for one). However, I can certainly work around them. I have another week to decide before the 30 day trial is up. The warranty for it is one year, so if it develops any problems I can get a repair/exchange. Like I said, so far mine has been free from QC problems, and all controls work just fine.

Here's the video by Huddison:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjVV...list=WL&index=

[DaveKDEN]

Affirm. I"m running WinWing MFSSB Side Stick, Virpil CM2 Base + TM Hornet Center Stick, TMWH or WinWing Viper Throttle with Orion 2 Base. I couldn't be happier with WinWing Products. By far the best products I've used.

That is "WOW"!

[keithb77]

Are Virpil and other 'high end' devices any better than the Warthog, and if so, in what respect?

I believe the Warthog has a plastic gimbal, the more expensive ones are metal and should last longer.
I've just bought a Warthog through Ebay, less than half the new price and I suspect it might outlive me...

[Mach3DS]

I believe the Warthog has a plastic gimbal, the more expensive ones are metal and should last longer.
I've just bought a Warthog through Ebay, less than half the new price and I suspect it might outlive me...

I had an X-52 followed by the TMWH. I'm now using TM Hornet Stick on the Virpil CM2 Base with heavy springs for my center mounted stick. It is easily the best stick setup for center mount I've ever used. The CM2 base uses 2 axis aluminum axies for X and Y. And Hall sensors. So it's very precise. It comes with the standard Springs installed and is super easy to trade out the springs and the CAMs for making the stick useful for other vehicles like space or helos. I recommend this setup 100%.

I use the WinWing MFSSB Force sensing base with the WinWing Viper EX grip as a side stick (without the stick shaker unit). It's the most precise stick I've ever used. It's unreal. If you fly FBW jets, this stick is incredible. If you fly DCS, or Falcon BMS it's a tank. The stick is all metal with some kind of plastic resin buttons. It moves like the real Viper stick only 1/4" of real movement and then force senses up to 6kg or force and can be scaled back to use less for full deflection. Can be tuned in all directions independently. 100% recommend as well. You won't be disappointed with either.

[Mach3DS]

I made a serious upgrade the pit this week. Boeing NLR Sim Seat. And added the WinWing Viper ICP+DED. ICP is incredible. Replaced my Viper Gear ICP. 2x Better for half the price!

[DaveKDEN]

Quick update to those following:

With a few days to go before my 30 day trial period ends, MSFS incorporated the Flight Deck profile into the sim (although it definitely needs further refining). There's still a couple of things I'm not satisfied with, like the throttle keypad screen being directly mapped to the keyboard, but I'm now leaning towards keeping it (90%). I've spent a huge amount of time mapping the stick and throttle, and while it's been arduous, the pure flexibility of this stick/throttle combo is pretty incredible. Having to start over with a different setup is something I really don't to go through. Also, the only other options that I think would work for me would be more money for a stick/throttle combo (like WinWing).
I did end up ordering the WinWing Orion metal flight rudder pedals with damper through their USA site for $345, so spending an additional amount for a different stick/throttle combo would hit the wallet even harder. I'm looking forward to FINALLY having a set of rudder pedals, as I've really been enjoying flying helos in MSFS more than in any other Flightsim before, and using the stick twist is getting rather old.
I really appreciate all the responses to this thread, and I still might change my mind and return the TB product in favor of something else. I'll probably have a couple of nights of insomnia thinking about it.

PS: Here's the WinWing rudder I ordered...

https://us.winwingsim.com/view/goods...ls.html?id=546

[delta_lima]

Hopefully not too offtopic ...

Took the plunge with a new pc to purchase MSFS. The configuration of the joystick hasn't been the easiest, but I've gotten control surfaces and most other key functions mapped to the stick and throttle quadrant - in my case, the VKB Gladiator and Throttle quadrant (THQ).

What seems messed up is mapping the POV hat. I mapped it to pan around the VC interior camera view, but unlike P3D, where I can use the same POV hat for both VC interior views AND external - in MSFS, when I try to assign it to exterior camera look up/down etc. like I did with the internal view - it references those mappings as having been already assigned to internal and won't let me use them for external.

That seems dumb, and while I've temporarily mapped the top right "hat" for panning in external views, it's not the nice fluid action as the true POV hat (left hat).

I've read in some forum posts that you can assign the POV hat for both - anyone done this successfully? I've posted on the VKB forum but no answers yet.

thanks,

dl

[DaveKDEN]

Hopefully not too offtopic ...

Took the plunge with a new pc to purchase MSFS. The configuration of the joystick hasn't been the easiest, but I've gotten control surfaces and most other key functions mapped to the stick and throttle quadrant - in my case, the VKB Gladiator and Throttle quadrant (THQ).

What seems messed up is mapping the POV hat. I mapped it to pan around the VC interior camera view, but unlike P3D, where I can use the same POV hat for both VC interior views AND external - in MSFS, when I try to assign it to exterior camera look up/down etc. like I did with the internal view - it references those mappings as having been already assigned to internal and won't let me use them for external.

That seems dumb, and while I've temporarily mapped the top right "hat" for panning in external views, it's not the nice fluid action as the true POV hat (left hat).

I've read in some forum posts that you can assign the POV hat for both - anyone done this successfully? I've posted on the VKB forum but no answers yet.

thanks,

dl

Hmm, I've been able to assign those functions to the same hat switch on both my X52 Pro and now the TB Flight Deck. I'm using the left top hat switch and just hit (I think it's) "assign anyway" and it works for both VC panning and external view panning. Does it let you assign it like that?