Quick Survey - which do you prefer?
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Thread: Quick Survey - which do you prefer?

  1. #1
    SOH-CM-2024 Mick's Avatar
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    Question Quick Survey - which do you prefer?

    David and I are working on a plane that has a side-by side cockpit. As it at present, if you're in the pilot's seat in the VC and turn your virtual head to look out to the right, the guy in the right seat's head is rather in the way. It's possible to make that guy invisible in VC view to give the pilot a view out to the right side.

    It's realistic to have the guy's head visible. But in the real plane the pilot could just ask the right-seater to look outside on his side. In FS, that guy either can't hear you or just ignores you and sits there blocking your view. That's not so realistic.

    Since neither David or I ever get much time to fly - none at all really - we thought we'd ask you folks who actually do fly which option you're prefer. So - would you rather have the right-seater visible in VC view or not? Please let us know what you think.

  2. #2

    Icon5

    Hi Mick,
    TBH if there's meant to be another pilot or observer, then I like to see my pal there (as long at it's a reasonable model!). Some people obviously don't (and have asked me to do the odd model without the other person). If you're actually (re-)building it then what you could do is have the other pilot etc on an ani key, where you can get rid of him/her if you don't want them there. Or if you're using FSDS 3.0/3.5 you can use the visible/invisible command for him/her.

    Cheers

    Shessi

  3. #3
    I don't mind having the right-seat guy in my 3 o'clock view, so long as he doesn't look like a Lego or Fisher-Price toy figure.
    Shessi's suggestion of a visible/invisible selection is a good idea.

  4. #4
    <shift> w.

    Tag the dead weight guy as a "water rudder" with two positions.
    That's kind of the convention that I've seen used the most.
    Personally, I prefer seeing the co-pilot but this gives everyone the option.

  5. #5
    I like to see the co pilot, as in the Fairchild C-123K. Or the lady passenger in the Piper PA23 Apache.
    Do not fear the enemy, for they can take only your life. Fear the media far more, for they will destroy your honour.

  6. #6
    SOH-CM-2024 Mick's Avatar
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    Well, it's a small sample size, so far at least, and everyone seems to like having the guy present in the right seat. I don't, but I won't advocate for that since I never get to fly anyway.

    I really like the idea of having it optional by making it an animation. I should've thought of that myself!

    Thanks for the replies!

  7. #7
    BTW, we REALLY, REALLY need a decent T-37 Tweet in FS9.

  8. #8
    SOH-CM-2024 Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sbob View Post
    BTW, we REALLY, REALLY need a decent T-37 Tweet in FS9.
    I thought there was one. I have one by D'Attomo & Quai but I've never seen it in the sim so I don't know how good it is. I just downloaded it, stuck it in my hangar drive and never did anything with it. I seem to recall that there was one that was highly regarded but I think it was payware. Otherwise I'd have grabbed a copy.

    Maybe it's one we might add to our list, though we're presently immersed in the early Cold War era, when the T-33 was the Air Force's jet trainer.

    Our present project is a bit more aggressive than the Tweet, or any trainer.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    Our present project is a bit more aggressive than the Tweet, or any trainer.
    Hmm ... why to I smell "Aardvark" on the horizon? You did say "Cold War" airplane, right?

    As for the right seater, I'd prefer the annimation option as well. If you guys already put the work into the figure so it looks good, then there's no reason not to have it. But you're right -- it does get in the way, especially if you have Active Camera or something similar with a key-mapped view over to the right seat.

    With the annimation option, you can have the best of both worlds. You can have the guy next to you and if you need to look out that side, hit the annimation and then the key combination to "sit" in the right seat, and you're golden.

    Off to work!

    Regards,

    Jorge
    Miami, FL

  10. #10
    SOH-CM-2024 Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    Hmm ... why to I smell "Aardvark" on the horizon? You did say "Cold War" airplane, right?
    Jorge
    Miami, FL
    Yes, Cold War, but early Cold War, nothing as modern as an Aardvark. And the Aardvark has been done. The current WIP is something that's never been done before for FS9, or FS8, or any non-combat sim. And having plunged into the project, we're starting to understand why not!

    I e-mailed David last evening with the suggestion to make the right-seater optional. I haven't checked my e-mail yet this morning but I hope he goes for the idea.

    Edit: I checked my e-mail and David likes the idea and will see if there's an animation that hasn't already been planned for.

    And BTW, the figure is excellent, looks great - alas, it just makes it impossible to see out the right side.

  11. #11
    Mick, we're trying to guess what's going to roll out of the hanger.
    Side-by-side makes it a challenge. The A-26 Invader isn't it, its been done before. So has the F-111 and the A-6 Intruder.
    What about the TF-102? Its a rare bird and it featured side-by-side seating.

  12. #12
    SOH-CM-2024 Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sbob View Post
    Mick, we're trying to guess what's going to roll out of the hanger.
    Side-by-side makes it a challenge. The A-26 Invader isn't it, its been done before. So has the F-111 and the A-6 Intruder.
    What about the TF-102? Its a rare bird and it featured side-by-side seating.
    No, none of those. It's an aircraft that was very important in the late 1940s through the 1950s but isn't well remembered now, perhaps because it didn't have a spectacular combat record like some of its contemporaries. It did go to war but got very little publicity due to the classified nature of the missions it flew.

    Since it's a work in progress and still at an early stage I don't want to announce it yet. But if someone figures it out I won't lie, I'll admit it.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    No, none of those. It's an aircraft that was very important in the late 1940s through the 1950s but isn't well remembered now, perhaps because it didn't have a spectacular combat record like some of its contemporaries. It did go to war but got very little publicity due to the classified nature of the missions it flew.

    Since it's a work in progress and still at an early stage I don't want to announce it yet. But if someone figures it out I won't lie, I'll admit it.
    The F-10 Skyknight?

    Sean

  14. #14

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    No, none of those. It's an aircraft that was very important in the late 1940s through the 1950s but isn't well remembered now, perhaps because it didn't have a spectacular combat record like some of its contemporaries. It did go to war but got very little publicity due to the classified nature of the missions it flew.

    Since it's a work in progress and still at an early stage I don't want to announce it yet. But if someone figures it out I won't lie, I'll admit it.

    I think I know what it is, but I'll just leave it at this:

    Two radials and two jet engines?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sbob View Post
    I think I know what it is, but I'll just leave it at this:

    Two radials and two jet engines?
    "Two turnin', two burnin', and two up front learnin." Might be.

    Sean

  16. #16
    SOH-CM-2024 Mick's Avatar
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    Nice tries guys, but no cigar. But you're all getting warmer.

    Getting back to the original question, David has made the guy in the right seat visible or not with a keystroke.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    ... Getting back to the original question, David has made the guy in the right seat visible or not with a keystroke.
    Nice!

    Jorge
    Miami, FL

  18. #18
    If there's supposed to be a guy (or gal) sitting in the other seat, they need to be there. I agree with the Keystroke option to remove him (her), too.

    It just looks more realistic when all the seats are filled; for example I love Kirk Olsson's F-16D, but it looks funny without the Whizzo in the Back Seat... if I were playing Doug Masters in Iron Eagle​, okay. But for normal Ops it'd be nice to 'look the part'.

  19. #19
    SOH-CM-2024 Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperPilot2 View Post
    If there's supposed to be a guy (or gal) sitting in the other seat, they need to be there. I agree with the Keystroke option to remove him (her), too.

    It just looks more realistic when all the seats are filled; for example I love Kirk Olsson's F-16D, but it looks funny without the Whizzo in the Back Seat... if I were playing Doug Masters in Iron Eagle​, okay. But for normal Ops it'd be nice to 'look the part'.
    I agree. But I really want to be able to see out the right side of the plane too. So now we can get that guy to "duck his head" so we can see past him. Both that guy and the pilot are always visible in spot view. We didn't worry about it with our last couple projects because they have tandem seating, so the guy in back doesn't block the pilot's view.

  20. #20
    Senior Administrator huub vink's Avatar
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    Sorry for my late arrival, but real life is busy here!

    Most probably due to the general poor quality, I never liked the presence of aco-pilot. However, when the quality of the co-pilots started to increase I also started to like the presence of a co-pilot, in the already very lonely world of flight simulators.

    So my preference is based on the quality of the co-pilot. I think the keystroke option is the best solution.

    Cheers,
    Huub

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