CJ Simulations Rafale temporarily removed from Matketplace

[RobM]

Interesting post on the CJ Simulations Rafale Discord channel from the developer (I've copied and pasted):

Hello @everyone, before anyone writes to me surprised, I will notify you. Marketplace has suspended the product temporarily from the store due to a complaint from Dassault for using the Rafale name. Apparently not only could I not use Dassault but I also cannot use Rafale, so I am discussing with Microsoft to be able to change the name of the product and reactivate it as soon as possible. That is to say, there have been no complaints about the model, or the systems, it has simply been the name "Rafale".

I apologize for this setback, but I am working as quickly as possible to resolve this problem, and if it is not accepted, I will ask you to request a refund. But I don't think that's the fate of the product.


So far, I've had no problems accessing and flying. But if you accidentally uninstall from the Content Manager, I don't know what will happen.

Maybe CJ Sim should hold a "rename the DR" contest.....

[jankees]

I believe similar problems occurred with the Mirages IIIC & 2000 that disappeared from Flightsim.to...

[Daube]

I'm not sure for the MirageIII but I'm pretty sure the 2000 has been removed because it was an unauthorized copy/conversion of the Metal2Mesh Mirage.
Concerning the Rafale, I think a part of the community said many times before release that CJ should be careful about Dassault lawyers, but it seems he has completely ignored these warnings...

[IanHenry]

Seems a bit childish on Dassault's part, why would they even bother, it's not going to effect them in any significant way, but I know they have a history of this type of thing.

[Javis]

Just name it Assault Rafael and nobody will be any the wiser

[Bushpounder]

Seems a bit childish on Dassault's part, why would they even bother, it's not going to effect them in any significant way, but I know they have a history of this type of thing.

If they hold a copyright to the names, it is far from childish, it's business. Some companies have people who do nothing but scan for copyright infringements. I've been on both sides of this one and they both suck!

Don

[noddy]

Same thing happens in Sim Racing, developers have to come up different names etc to avoid this.

[Ferry_vO]

Typical that Renault just launched a new model called the Rafale...

[K5083]

This would be a trademark issue rather than copyright, and courts generally have upheld the rights of companies to restrict or prohibit the use of their marks in such contexts, to avoid the implication that the company endorses, licenses, or is somehow associated with the product.

Fun fact, "Dassault" is really a made-up trademark. Dassault is a continuation of the wartime and pre-war Bloch company, and founder Marcel Bloch made up the name as a contraction of "D' assault" (loosely, "for attack") when rebranding the company in 1947. At that time, he changed his own name to Marcel Dassault.

Creators not interested in seeking a license can usually come up with a non-infringing workaround, so let's hope for that.

August

[tiger1962]

According to Wikipedia: "The Rafale is referred to as an "omnirole" 4.5th generation aircraft by Dassault."
So "Dassault Omnirole Aircraft" might pass the censor.

[Tom Clayton]

Sounds like "Hjet" all over again. Seems to me, as long as the dev doesn't make a complete mockery of the product, the manufacturer is getting free positive publicity for their product.

[Fnerg]

Just name it Assault Rafael and nobody will be any the wiser

Javis, your reply caused me to Google anagram generator, and low and behold, there it was. Enter the words Dassault Rafale and you get some amazing AI generated words, some real, some not. Here's a couple of my favorites...

AAAS artful sled
AAAS Dulles fart
farted SAA Sulla
fatale lards USA
feudal rat Salas
seal tradal USAF
AAAS fuel lt Sadr

[azflyboy]

Typical that Renault just launched a new model called the Rafale...

I have no clue how French/EU trademark law works, but I wouldn't be surprised if Renault either licensed the name, or Dassault only has a trademark on Rafale for aviation related stuff.

Dassault (along with Gulfstream) have a reputation for pretty aggressively defending their trademarks with FS-related stuff, so I'm a bit surprised CJ Simulations didn't go with a different name off the bat.

[Javis]

Javis, your reply caused me to Google anagram generator, and low and behold, there it was. Enter the words Dassault Rafale and you get some amazing AI generated words, some real, some not. Here's a couple of my favorites...

AAAS artful sled
AAAS Dulles fart
farted SAA Sulla
fatale lards USA
feudal rat Salas
seal tradal USAF
AAAS fuel lt Sadr

LOL !

Anyone remembers that TWA baloney from a few years ago ? Each and every FS aircraft that was dressed up in TWA livery was to be pulled from the net, payware and freeware alike. Proved to be nothing but childish harrasment from some dillitant lawer trying to climb up a bit higher on the TWA ladder because some time later we never heard anything about it anymore and virtual skies filled up with TWA airliners again no problemo whatsoever.

[Bushpounder]

This would be a trademark issue rather than copyright, and courts generally have upheld the rights of companies to restrict or prohibit the use of their marks in such contexts, to avoid the implication that the company endorses, licenses, or is somehow associated with the product.

Fun fact, "Dassault" is really a made-up trademark. Dassault is a continuation of the wartime and pre-war Bloch company, and founder Marcel Bloch made up the name as a contraction of "D' assault" (loosely, "for attack") when rebranding the company in 1947. At that time, he changed his own name to Marcel Dassault.

Creators not interested in seeking a license can usually come up with a non-infringing workaround, so let's hope for that.

August

You are 100% correct. I meant trademark. I was thinking left and turned right! LOL!

Don

[Txmmy83]

it happend to roland laborie rafale too in FSX & P3D Times removed form sales but later re-released as FF-RAF-C and RL-FF-RAF-M for P3D4

[keithb77]

The CJS R-FAL is back in the Marketplace, should anyone want it...

[Cees Donker]

I think it's gone again?

Cees

[RobM]

Copy and paste what the developer posted today on the CJsim Discord channel:

Good morning @everyone, I inform you that R-Fal will be delisted again on the Marketplace for only a few days, since on the one hand,
we must comply with the legal days that Dassault has to respond to my counternotice. On the other hand, although these days the product
has been published under the name R-Fal, it had not been completely updated, since there are still liveries that refer to "Rafale" and we
would be infringing on trademark violations by this reasons. In summary, R-Fal will return to the Marketplace in a period of 5-10 days,
and will do so directly with version 1.0.6. Current users of the product in the meantime should continue to have access to the product
without any problem.

[Priller]

Avions Marcel Dassault, making people's lives difficult since 1947...

Priller