Tilting backwards at catapult start

[Cees Donker]

A few of Rob's planes have the tendency to tilt backwards when these are catapulted from a carrier. Can this be solved?



Cees

[MrZippy]

Looks like it's already close to airborne before the end of the cat. Have you tried anything like a little forward pressure on the stick to keep the tail up?

[Cees Donker]

Looks like it's already close to airborne before the end of the cat. Have you tried anything like a little forward pressure on the stick to keep the tail up?

This is with the stick neutral, but it is much more tilted right at the start.

Cees

[MrZippy]

This is with the stick neutral, but it is much more tilted right at the start.

Cees

Almost sounds like a contact point problem. At the start...before launch? Can you show a screenie?

[Mike71]

Older bridle equpped jets had attach points near the landing gear trunions or on the belly - if the cfg file has them aft of the MLG that can happen. I believe his jets show a bridle on cat tension and typically a plane should squat, but not with the nose wheel off the deck.

I just tried it in P34.5, same result - very weird.

If you use fwd stick it will nose down right at the end of the cat stroke - not good!

[Cees Donker]

I changed the launch assistance. Off to test the changes.

Cees

Solved!

//[launch_assistance]
//launch_bar_pivot = 3.80, .00, -2.6
//launch_bar_lug = 8.50, 0.00 ,-5.20


[launch_assistance]
launch_bar_pivot = 14.610, .00, -2.5
launch_bar_lug = 16.110, 0.00 ,-3.500




14.610, 0.000, -4.000 (location of the nosewheel)

[Mike71]

[QUOTE=Cees Donker;1317547]I changed the launch assistance. Off to test the changes.

Seems to work great!

[Cees Donker]

[QUOTE=Mike71;1317567]

I changed the launch assistance. Off to test the changes.

Seems to work great!

Works great indeed. The new values are derived from the nosewheel. On my old install I had this all done. Forgot it in my new install. I'm a bit rusty.



Cees

[Mike71]

[QUOTE=Cees Donker;1317569]

Works great indeed. The new values are derived from the nosewheel. On my old install I had this all done. Forgot it in my new install. I'm a bit rusty.



Cees

For those interested, I found a Navy training film on the F2H-2.. See https://www.google.com/search?
q=f2h+banshee+cockpit+photo+picture&rlz=1C1CHBF_en US1026US1026&cs=0&filter=0&biw=1920&bih=963&dpr=2# fpstate=ive&vld=cid:48cc1abd,vid:H_ZixqnoRCM

An amusing point is a couple of sailor plane captains securing a Banshee with the engines running, while they are wearing their "white hats" - the J-34 was obviously not much of a sucking threat at idle!

[MrZippy]

[QUOTE=Mike71;1317578]

=Cees Donker;1317569]For those interested, I found a Navy training film on the F2H-2.. See https://www.google.com/search?
q=f2h+banshee+cockpit+photo+picture&rlz=1C1CHBF_en US1026US1026&cs=0&filter=0&biw=1920&bih=963&dpr=2# fpstate=ive&vld=cid:48cc1abd,vid:H_ZixqnoRCM

An amusing point is a couple of sailor plane captains securing a Banshee with the engines running, while they are wearing their "white hats" - the J-34 was obviously not much of a sucking threat at idle!

A faster link to the Banshee vid, Mike! Dumb squid with his dixie cup in front of the intakes!

https://youtu.be/H_ZixqnoRCM

Captain of the Saratoga '69-'70 Med Cruise, Warren H. O'Neil was a Banshee pilot in his younger years!

[Mike71]

[QUOTE=MrZippy;1317582]

A faster link to the Banshee vid, Mike! Dumb squid with his dixie cup in front of the intakes!

https://youtu.be/H_ZixqnoRCM

Captain of the Saratoga '69-'70 Med Cruise, Warren H. O'Neil was a Banshee pilot in his younger years!

I have a feeling that "being covered" outside might have been required - as dumb as that may be, but not sure. Perhaps it was a Public Affairs input?

My XO in my first A-4 squadron flew F8Fs and Banshees in VF-51. Also the CO of sister squadron VF-13 Pete Easterling, later COMNAVAIRLANT.

[gray eagle]

I knew ADM Easterling when he was the CO of VF-124 (Crusader College). I was an ORDY with VF-24 (F8C) back then.

https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/jacksonville-fl/crawford-easterling-8897791




[QUOTE=Mike71;1317599]

I have a feeling that "being covered" outside might have been required - as dumb as that may be, but not sure. Perhaps it was a Public Affairs input?

My XO in my first A-4 squadron flew F8Fs and Banshees in VF-51. Also the CO of sister squadron VF-13 Pete Easterling, later COMNAVAIRLANT.

[Mike71]

[QUOTE=gray eagle;1317603]I knew ADM Easterling when he was the CO of VF-124 (Crusader College). I was an ORDY with VF-24 (F8C) back then.

https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/jacksonville-fl/crawford-easterling-8897791





I used to talk to my XO and then-CDR Easterling about flying in Korea and the F8F / F2H. They would tell me about shutting down a Banshee engine for most of their flight and not lighting it off again until they were turning off the 180! Good Lord!

[Mike71]

A few of Rob's planes have the tendency to tilt backwards when these are catapulted from a carrier. Can this be solved?

Cees

I would note that some Brit jets DID launch with the nose gear apparently off the deck as I recall - the Brit cat length was very short and an exaggerated angle was needed to avoid the need for excessive aft stick input after launch, which could lead to overcontrol. Even the US F-4 Navy versions had a problem but solved it by having an extendable nose strut for launch.

[Motormouse]

I would note that some Brit jets DID launch with the nose gear apparently off the deck as I recall - the Brit cat length was very short and an exaggerated angle was needed to avoid the need for excessive aft stick input after launch, which could lead to overcontrol. Even the US F-4 Navy versions had a problem but solved it by having an extendable nose strut for launch.

That was because the catapult holdback was tensioned that way, the Buccaneer would sit on its tailskid

Ttfn

Pete