Twenty years ago Panther was amazed that someone so young was so gifted and enthousiastic about flying. John has come a long way. He always has impressed me with his skills and his knowledge, never saw him as a kid.Originally Posted by jmig
You never cease to impress me with your aviation knowledge. And, you are still a kid.
Cees
It's out! Be interested in some feedback when somebody has pulled the trigger...
and let's not forget that he is one of the best repainters around, ànd a great developer too, I still miss the WBS Mustangs in MFS
You can find most of my repaints for FSX/P3D in the library here on the outhouse.
For MFS paints go to flightsim.to
Brilliant
Looks great, flies great, sounds great inside (maybe too many pops and bangs at low throttle, maybe not)
Tiny modern radio in cockpit (as in R/L gliders) and modern pilot.
Take-offs and landings bit tricky as expected...
Strangely can't get it to loop, always rolls erect exactly at the top of the loop, still at 250 KPH so not stalled ... hmmm
Silver livery if you don't want to fly for the Luftwaffe, partial swastikas.
Last edited by keithb77; June 14th, 2023 at 02:32.
After the last update of the Spitfire I couldn't resist, downloading now for a test flight during lunch break. Home office has some benefits
i5 13600k, RTX2080 Super, 32 GB Ram, 2x1 TB M.2 SSDs, CRG9 49" Ultrawide screen
Well, this one definitely has got some character. A bit harder to handle during take off than the Spitfire, but quite doable. Landing is pretty tame. One has to float her in and really put her down on all three wheels to avoid bouncing though. Was almost ok on my 2nd attemp.
All in all, I'd call it a job very well done by FlyingIron Simulations.
i5 13600k, RTX2080 Super, 32 GB Ram, 2x1 TB M.2 SSDs, CRG9 49" Ultrawide screen
Having studied, for years, how the Bf 109G is operated, how it handles, what airspeeds are used for all aspects of flight, trims, power settings, etc., I can't be more impressed than I am right now with this addon. This, by far, to me, is the most expertly and carefully crafted warbird for MSFS. Everything about it has been done, clearly, by someone who cares about this aircraft. The modeling is the best that FlyingIron have ever done. The textures are very high resolution, very detailed, and appear very accurate. The flight dynamics are spot on. The sounds are exceptional and the best that FlyingIron have done. They match, exactly, the real aircraft inside and out (compare to the video links I posted earlier in this thread, including cockpit videos). I absolutely love the popping/sputtering low idle sounds which, again, are exactly correct to the real thing. To top it all off, there is a lot of system and failure simulations in this one. You have to be mindful to not foul the plugs, to not operate at too cold or too hot oil and coolant temps, you have to make sure not to underprime or overprime the engine at start, etc. It's just phenomenal, and I'm going to be flying this aircraft the rest of the day.
For anyone on the fence about purchasing this addon, and/or are new to how to fly the Bf 109G, you can download and view the extensive manual from the FlyingIron Bf 109 with the link on the product page. I would say start with the details on Page 7 and go from there. https://flyingironsimulations.com/co...ight-simulator
On my first flight with the aircraft, I did everything by the book (real-life operations matching what the product manual also states), and it responded exactly as it should. Shortly after taking off and retracting the gear, there was a slight unexpected sound that I didn't anticipate, to later realize it was the wing slats having closed (as they do/should). It does wing overs, rolls and loops just beautifully. I have to dig into what the proper entry speed is for a loop in the 109G, but I established 500 kph on my descent entry, which is just over 300 mph, and it loops just perfectly, with rudder required over the top (as would be expected). The final approach (lack of visibility) and landing is just as expected and matches up well with reality. A lot of elevator nose-up trim required, which also matches reality - I've heard pilots describe using the elevator trim wheel on the landing approach just as much as the flap control wheel.
Last edited by Bomber_12th; June 14th, 2023 at 05:14.
Here are some screenshots from my first look through and test flight. Note all of the correct colors, inside and out, accurate stenciling, the individual varying welds on the exhaust stacks, the rivet detail, the wood instrument panel, etc. Among the features controlled via the in-cockpit tablet, you can quickly change the German wording throughout the cockpit to English, just by a click of the mouse, you can switch between the two different types of canopies, you can add/remove the tropical filter for the supercharger intake, you can hide the pilot, you can add/remove a modern radio gauge, and more.
For anyone wondering, the yellow plumbing on the right-hand side of the cockpit is a fuel line for the drop tank. As per original, there is a glass section which allows the pilot to see the fuel flow. Because there wasn't an actual gauge to let the pilot know how many liters of fuel remained, the glass tube was the gauge, since the pilot could look and see when the fuel started running low through that line.
That will have been my problem! I've only looped a glider in real life - no torqueI have to dig into what the proper entry speed is for a loop in the 109G, but I established 500 kph on my descent entry, which is just over 300 mph, and it loops just perfectly, with rudder required over the top (as would be expected).
They've done such a great job. This is the first MSFS aircraft I've really noticed where the control surfaces stiffen up as you approach Vne. One of the pilots that flew the Bf 109G-2 "Black 6" back in the 90s commented that the stick forces become quite heavy in the '109 at higher speeds, especially in pitch, and it was tiring to fly it through an aerobatic display, especially vertical maneuvers. This seems to be very well captured by the flight dynamics. Entering the loop at 500 kph/300+ mph, it requires quite a lot of pull on the joystick to enter the vertical, and as you're pulling up into the loop you can notice the pitch force lighten as the airspeed lowers. Over the top of the loop the wing slats deploy, just as they do in reality.
I'm glad I currently have time off work to enjoy this model, and I've got three flights now under my belt in the sim. I did a flight with D-FMBB out of the German grass airfield Degerfeld, and that was quite adventuresome trying to keep nothing but the tires touching the ground with the uneven runway - certainly not the best idea/location for only my third flight with the aircraft! My experience reminded me of this classic clip from the early 2000s of the same aircraft, being flown by Walter Eichhorn from the grass at Hahnweide (especially the landing at 1:13): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO9mEv5Ve54
Here are a couple screenshots I also posted in the screenshot forum. I just love the detail of the welds around the windscreen and canopy framing, the opening/closing cockpit side vents, the high-resolution stencils, the haze/overspray around the paint blotches, etc. This is work done by individuals who have a true passion for this aircraft.
This shot shows how you can add the modern radio/transponder head in the lower cockpit and replace the gunsight with a GPS (both options are separate). This configuration matches closely with most all of the Bf 109Gs flying today.
Last edited by Bomber_12th; June 14th, 2023 at 07:40.
As beautifully modeled this offering is, not much of a Bf fan. But I do drive a German automobile. Go figure. Maybe I'll change my mind. Here are a couple of shots my father took way back in WWII. This is a Bf 109G-6. Carries the emblem of Jagdgeschwader 53, the distinctive black spade on its nose. Supposidly one of the more famous Bf 109 units. That spinner on the ground in the top shot would have been a nice collectable. ;-)
Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken.
Just to add on this '109 day' a lovely pair of videos of the Hanger 10 Bf-109 G6 aircraft.
(4) Maiden flight on the Messerschmitt Bf-109 G6 with a DB 605 Engine - YouTube
(4) Messerschmitt Bf-109 G6, DB605 - Pilots first flight! | Hangar10 - YouTube
Some decent shots of the start, taxi, take off and landing which may be useful as we all try to master this one!!
Last edited by collensr; June 14th, 2023 at 08:06. Reason: more info
Those are wonderful photos, DVJ! What part of the service did your dad serve, and what unit was he assigned?
With regard to the FlyingIron Bf 109G, I can continue to heap praise over everything. With an absolutely critical eye/attitude, these are just a few very small things that could improve it just a tad bit more (though it is already the most impressive WWII aircraft in the sim).
- Right now, the manual says to put the elevator trim to the +1 setting for takeoff. There has always been confusion over this among the flight sim and combat sim community as to just what that means. Is +1 tail-high/nose-down or tail-low/nose-up trim, and how to properly depict that on the indicator in the cockpit? At some point, somewhere, that became the often-quoted setting for the elevator trim for takeoff. However, in a book written by one of the individuals involved with the restoration and operation of Bf 109G-2 "Black 6" in the 1990s, he mentioned that the takeoff elevator trim setting was -1. Finally, several years ago, the question was answered by Volker Bau, one of the Messerschmitt Foundation pilots that flew "Red 7". He couldn't remember whether in the cockpit it read -1 or +1 when setting trim for takeoff, only that it is definitely tail-low/nose-up trim that is added (moving the elevator trim wheel aft), not tail-high/nose-down trim. As it stands right now, +1 trim in the FlyingIron Bf 109 is nose-down, so to be more accurate you should go against what the product manual says and use -1 elevator trim instead (and this seems to work better/feel better as well). If you want proof of what Volker Bau said with regard to trim, just watch this video (it helps to have closed-captions turned on): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDMzZOOIFro
- Right now, the sliding side windows of the standard canopy aren't functional. Just a small thing that, if they were working, I'd use them when taxiing on the ground, just for kicks. I'm sure there are good reasons for them not to be function as it stands right now (more coding, plus tying into the soundset, and affecting flight dynamics, if they really wanted to get into that). The canopy does open, as do the side wall cockpit vents.
- Right now, the airspeed has to be maintained a bit higher during the approach than what is used in the real aircraft, however the touchdown speed, when you settle onto the runway in a perfect three-point attitude, is spot on (about 150 kph, or slightly lower). With everything else about the flight characteristics appearing to be spot on, I'm willing to be fully content with it as it stands.
- Right now, there is no period/vintage pilot option. Again, I don't pretend to be flying in the 1940s, so this isn't necessary, but it would be an interesting option to have (to say, for instance, depict a modern pilot dressed in period garb for an air-to-air photoshoot).
Doing some more flying, I've noticed that the settings in cruise are all right in the ballpark, just as they should be. Cruise power used by the Messerschmitt Foundation is 1.05 ATA, which establishes RPM at 2100, which is spot on in the sim. At these power settings, and the radiator doors closed, the airspeed in level flight is about 430 kph, and the elevator trim setting is right at around 0, both of which are also true to the real aircraft.
Superb!!!
Manage to do a proper landing at third attempt (propeller blades do not bend).
Have to read (printed it) manual to find about those radiator flaps how do (if so) they close,
And, of course, an epoch pilot to get rid of that guy and not getting an empty cockpit. Hope someone makes an historical mod (you know what I mean).
Army Air Force. I need to verify the group, but I believe it was the 47th bombardment group, supporting A-20s in N. Africa and Italy.
Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken.
Thank you, DVJ. Those photos had reminded me of others I've seen taken by members of some of the fighter and bomber groups as they pushed into captured airfields in North Africa and later the Mediterranean.
ShotgunShack, I was thinking, especially with the tropical filter and standard canopy, a repaint of "Black 6" would look fairly convincing, despite the large cannon blisters in the cowl which it didn't have. The "Black 6" restoration is pretty much the sole reason I grew to have an interest in the '109.
Just little anecdotes about the Bf 109 I keep remembering...
- In various modern pilot reports I can recall, it is always mentioned that the center of gravity in the '109 is quite far aft, making it very tail heavy on the ground. Unlike the Spitfire, where if you get too heavy with the brakes it will easily nose over, in the case of the '109 you can really stand on the brakes and it doesn't pose the same risk. According to real world pilots, because the tail is so heavy, it can be difficult to turn on the ground and requires a good amount of brake, thrust, rudder, and a bit of down elevator to lighten the tail to get it to turn effectively.
- Real world Bf 109 pilots also describe that on takeoff, you start with the control stick to the right, and slightly forward, to counter the p-factor, and then as the tail comes up you of course adjust based on feel (I've already noticed this to be important with the sim version).
- I haven't tested it yet, but according to those who have experience operating DB 605-powered Bf 109s, such as the Messerschmitt Foundation in Germany, they say that you only have 12 minutes from when the engine starts until when you'll need to takeoff, otherwise you're very likely to overheat the engine, even with the radiator doors wide open.
Great pics.As beautifully modeled this offering is, not much of a Bf fan. But I do drive a German automobile. Go figure. Maybe I'll change my mind. Here are a couple of shots my father took way back in WWII. This is a Bf 109G-6. Carries the emblem of Jagdgeschwader 53, the distinctive black spade on its nose. Supposidly one of the more famous Bf 109 units. That spinner on the ground in the top shot would have been a nice collectable. ;-)
That top one looks as if it's got an allied prop attached, very different profile than the beefy one shown in the bottom pic, perhaps a Mosquito or Lancaster prop? Even the tips appear to be painted in yellow which the Germans didn't do
I can't say that the 109 is one of my favorite airplanes - quite the opposite. But FI really created a masterpiece. It's definitely their best work yet
Greetings
Tim
i5 12600K | 32Gb | RTX 4080
John - apologies for duplicating your video links ! Just wondered if you knew how many DB powered 109's are currently airworthy in the World?
Cheers
Richard
Aargh, this sounds awesome, and I was going to skip it due to a distaste with these planes very personal effects on my family. But Flying Iron's stuff is so good -- their P-38 remains on of my favorite MSFS planes. And the silver livery will hold me off until someone hopefully does a paint or two of a US or British captured scheme.
No problem, Richard!
There are as many as eight DB-powered '109s in the world right now that could be considered airworthy, though a number of them haven't been active for a little while:
- Bf 109G-6 WkNr.440738 D-FMGS - owned by Hangar10/Air Fighter Academy in Germany, able to fly but has not been flown in at least a year or more.
- Bf 109G-6 (converted Buchon) D-FMBD (ex-D-FMBB) - owned by Hangar10/Air Fighter Academy in Germany, which as of May 28th was awaiting its engine back from getting work done.
- Bf 109G-14 (converted Buchon) D-FMGS - owned by Hangar10/Air Fighter Academy in Germany, able to fly but has not been flown in at least a year or more.
- Bf 109E-7 WkNr.1983 D-FEML - owned by Eberhard Thiesen in Germany, restoration completed in 2017, but not yet flown (due to prolonged engine work). It was taxi-tested last year and again this spring, and was even out taxi-testing yesterday. Hopefully flying soon!
- Bf 109E-4 WkNr.3579 G-CIPB - private European owner, chartered to Biggin Hill Heritage Hangar in the UK, it has been four or five years since it last flew. Last I heard, it is still awaiting its engine back from getting work done.
- Bf 109E-3 WkNr.1342 N342FH - owned by Steuart Walton in the US, it has been at least since 2019 that it last flew. The FHCAM aircraft are or will be in the process of being brought back into annual/ready to fly as time progresses.
- Bf 109G-4 (converted Buchon) N109GY - owned by Jerry Yagen/Military Aviation Museum in the US, considered active.
- Bf 109G-6 WkNr.410077 N42109 - owned by Bruce Winter in the US, the most original and accurately-restored airworthy Bf 109 since "Black 6", considered active.
The two DB-powered Bf 109s owned by the Messerschmitt Foundation, Bf 109G-4 "Red 7" (converted Buchon) D-FWME and Bf 109G-10 "Yellow 3" (converted Buchon) D-FDME, haven't flown in a number of years and remain being worked on, last I've heard. "Red 7" has been undergoing a complete ground-up rebuild with an all new fuselage since around 2017.
Furthermore, MeierMotors in Germany have been working on restoring two early-variant Bf 109Es, both to be powered with DB 601 engines. I believe there is another Bf 109 project or two in the works between Germany/Hungary at this time. Graham Peacock in the UK has three Bf 109 projects under restoration to fly, in the form of a Bf 109G-2 and two Bf 109F-4s. Jerry Yagen/Military Aviation Museum, many years ago, had a Bf 109E under restoration in "Eastern Europe", but I haven't heard/seen anything about it in over a decade. Kermit Weeks has a Bf 109G-6 under restoration to fly, though I don't know if he'll ever see it to fruition/flying.
Last edited by Bomber_12th; June 14th, 2023 at 15:00.
It's getting more and more difficult to tell what's real and not real these days. No editing, no Nvidia filtering, just phenomenal. If you move the drone camera around the cockpit, you'll even see details like the brake cylinders, fully modeled and textured behind the rudder pedals.
It's really nice to see a Dev committed to getting it right in every way, and giving you every bit of your money's worth. Some could learn a lesson from them.
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