Weather for missions

[mongoose]

Recently I discovered the real gold info for missions, https://www.lancasterbombers.net/night-raid-reports/, which has incredible detail for missions, including weather forecasts which are also quite detailed. So, I am thinking of trying to set up weather conditions, especially for major raids, such as the July 1943 Hamburg, Peenemünde, Berlin, and Nurenburg raids, for TOW Pt. II Sept. 1942-May 1944.

I have amassed a great deal of info on weather making, especially WRT to different weather in England and the continent, but I don't think that I have mastered it yet. In addition, I really am interested in higher altitude wind/jet stream effects, and if possible, icing conditions. The latter 2 effects, I have no idea about so far.

I can't remember who is/are expert(s) on CFS3 weather xmls, so this is a shout out for help in that area. I can be PM'ed and then emailed if anyone can help.

[MajorMagee]

As you probably already know you define the overall background weather conditions, and then define a square (or many squares) that has different conditions.

<Weather Name="England Rain Clouds-France Clear">


<BackgroundWeather precipType="NoRain" skyboxCloudType="ThinClouds" MaxAltitude="-90" MinAltitude="-100" fogColor="4288789972" Windspeed="0" windDir="0" >
<CloudLayer cloudfile="cloudCumulusSmall.xml" CloudType="ScatteredClouds" CloudRadius="40000" CloudCount="40" Lightning="noLightning" MinAltitude="900" MaxAltitude="900" fogColor="4287542759" />
<CloudLayer cloudfile="CloudCumulus2.xml" CloudType="ScatteredClouds" CloudRadius="45000" CloudCount="12" Lightning="noLightning" MinAltitude="900" MaxAltitude="900" fogColor="4287542759" />
<CloudLayer cloudfile="dr_alto_cumulus_cloud.xml" CloudType="ScatteredClouds" CloudRadius="35000" CloudCount="225" Lightning="noLightning" MinAltitude="7000" MaxAltitude="7000" fogColor="4288987369"/>






</BackgroundWeather>


<WeatherObject precipType="LightRain" skyboxCloudType="ThinClouds" MaxAltitude="350" MinAltitude="-100" Windspeed="0" windDir="0" >
<Bounds>
<Point Lat="N52 54" Lon="E3 41"/>
<Point Lat="N49 22" Lon="E0 2"/>
<Point Lat="N51 9" Lon="W4 48"/>
<Point Lat="N54 16" Lon="W11 14"/>

<CloudLayer cloudfile="cloudfog.xml" CloudType="BrokenClouds" CloudRadius="40000" CloudCount="500" Lightning="noLightning" MinAltitude="-50" MaxAltitude="210" fogColor="4287542759"/>
<CloudLayer cloudfile="low_cumulus.xml" CloudType="ScatteredClouds" CloudRadius="30000" CloudCount="120" Lightning="noLightning" MinAltitude="30" MaxAltitude="30" fogColor="4287542759" />
<CloudLayer cloudfile="cloudCumulus2.xml" CloudType="ScatteredClouds" CloudRadius="40000" CloudCount="25" Lightning="noLightning" MinAltitude="2400" MaxAltitude="2900" fogColor="4288987369" />
<CloudLayer cloudfile="dr_alto_cumulus_cloud.xml" CloudType="ScatteredClouds" CloudRadius="35000" CloudCount="225" Lightning="noLightning" MinAltitude="7000" MaxAltitude="7000" fogColor="4288987369"/>
<CloudLayer cloudfile="dr_low_frontal_cloud.xml" CloudType="ThickClouds" CloudRadius="30000" CloudCount="900" Lightning="noLightning" MinAltitude="20" MaxAltitude="20" fogColor="4287542759" />




</Bounds>
</WeatherObject>




</Weather>

[MajorMagee]

To do the jet stream you would create one long rectangle across europe, or a band of interlinking rectangles if you want a curve in the flow, that has a high wind in a narrow band of altitudes.

You can set the precipitation type to snow, but I don't think there is an ice option. Again this can be set to a particular range of altitudes.

[mongoose]

Thanks Andy.

I do have a ? about the role of 'BackgroundWeather' as to what it implies. I have notes from another saying

"First, there has to be a background weather somewhere. Usually this is where your plane takes off and lands. From practice, your plane must fly into a "WeatherObject" or weather cell zone from a background area for the weather to change. The background weather can be as nice or as nasty as you wish. It will be the default weather effect when you are between other weathers.

I learned that if you do have the required background areas, but for whatever reason start your plane from inside a particular weather cell zone, your plane will actually start with the background weather in effect."

Does that imply it's really the default weather in that mission, and if one wants different weather even at the takeoff base then one must have a 'WeatherObject', or can one just use the 'BackgroundWeather' as specific to the takeoff/starting waypoint?

What is the role of the 'Skybox' in this? Does it just relate to the <clouds> textures?

[mongoose]

To do the jet stream you would create one long rectangle across europe, or a band of interlinking rectangles if you want a curve in the flow, that has a high wind in a narrow band of altitudes.

You can set the precipitation type to snow, but I don't think there is an ice option. Again this can be set to a particular range of altitudes.

I assume this is basically something similar to below? In this case no 'Windspeed' is mentioned in the first WeatherObject as <WeatherObject precipType="HeavyRain" MaxAltitude="2800" MinAltitude="-100" >

but in the 2nd WeatherObject we have <WeatherObject Windspeed="66" windDir="270" MinAltitude="6000" MaxAltitude="10000"> and no mention of precip?

<Weather Name="Wind Test Mission Weather 4">
<BackgroundWeather precipType="HeavyRain" skyboxCloudType="BrokenClouds" MaxAltitude="2800" MinAltitude="-100" fogColor="4288332017" Windspeed="0" windDir="0">
<CloudLayer cloudfile="cloudCumulusSmall.xml" CloudType="ScatteredClouds" CloudRadius="40000" CloudCount="36" Lightning="noLightning" MinAltitude="600" MaxAltitude="800" fogColor="4288332017"/>
<CloudLayer cloudfile="cloudFog.xml" CloudType="ScatteredClouds" CloudRadius="15000" CloudCount="85" Lightning="noLightning" MinAltitude="600" MaxAltitude="800" fogColor="4288332017"/>
<CloudLayer cloudfile="CloudCumuloStratus.xml" CloudType="ScatteredClouds" CloudRadius="20000" CloudCount="45" Lightning="noLightning" MinAltitude="800" MaxAltitude="1200" fogColor="4288332017"/>
</BackgroundWeather>
<WeatherObject precipType="HeavyRain" MaxAltitude="2800" MinAltitude="-100" >
<Bounds>
<Point Lat="N53 40" Lon="E5 00"/>
<Point Lat="N53 00" Lon="E14 00"/>
<Point Lat="N52 00" Lon="E5 00"/>
<Point Lat="N51 00" Lon="E14 30"/>
</Bounds>
<CloudLayer cloudfile="CloudCumuloNimbus.xml" CloudType="ScatteredClouds" CloudRadius="40000" CloudCount="40" Lightning="Thunderstorm" MinAltitude="1900" MaxAltitude="1900" fogColor="3368601800"/>
<CloudLayer cloudfile="cloudCumulusCongestus.xml" CloudType="ScatteredClouds" CloudRadius="40000" CloudCount="30" Lightning="Thunderstorm" MinAltitude="1900" MaxAltitude="1900" fogColor="3368601800"/>
<CloudLayer cloudfile="CloudCumuloStratus.xml" CloudType="ScatteredClouds" CloudRadius="30000" CloudCount="30" Lightning="noLightning" MinAltitude="1200" MaxAltitude="1600" fogColor="3368601800"/>
</WeatherObject>
<WeatherObject Windspeed="66" windDir="270" MinAltitude="6000" MaxAltitude="10000">
<Bounds>
<Point Lat="N53 40" Lon="E5 00"/>
<Point Lat="N53 00" Lon="E14 00"/>
<Point Lat="N52 00" Lon="E5 00"/>
<Point Lat="N51 00" Lon="E14 30"/>
</Bounds>
</WeatherObject>
</Weather>

[MajorMagee]

As far as explaining the skybox, here are the notes from my unpublished weather mod:

You may either make copies of your original files, and then replace them with these, or install them as a temporary Mod using JSGME.


These files are intended to be used with AnKor's 2017 shaders for CFS3 that correct for the gray band at the horizon. I've included an update to every weather.xml file I have. The BackgroundWeather fogcolor in each weather.xml file has been tuned to match the horizon color of the included skybox files. The high resolution skybox files provided are a combination of new textures and modifications of existing ones to smooth out the banding, and eliminate the corner seams as best I could.


The default skyboxes and fog color tend to make the horizon too blue for anything but a zero humidity day. I've tried to mimic as closely as possible the atmospheric effects I see in the real world. The sky generaly goes from blue to bluish grey-white as you approach the horizon because of the water vapor in the air.


The method used for the tuning of the fog color was to check the color at about the middle of the texture using PhotoShop, and then to turn down the brightness by 12% in the color checker. The Hexadecimal RGB values were then put in a calculator with FF added at the beginning, and converted to the decimal equivalent. This is the value that went into the fogcolor. A quick check in the game was then used to refine the brightness value up or done slightly in PhotoShop, and a new hex and decimal value was tried until the match was optimized for most conditions (see table below).


If you are drawing new images each patch is drawn as Front, Left, Back, Right, Front to make the joins seamless.
Front is displayed looking South
Left is displayed looking West
Back is displayed looking North
Right is displayed looking East


In the panoramic_cubic_test.dds file these should be placed in Back, Front, Top, Bottom, Left, Right sequence.
(The default that came with cfs3 was not done correctly.) Some of AnKor's shaders use this file to create cloud reflections on the water, and I think it may be used for the UI background scene as well. You will notice mismatched seams at the edges of the sections if the sequence is not correct.


There is a setting in the weather xml files called skyboxcloudType that can have a few different predefined descriptions:
NoClouds (and ThinClouds) will display the clear_bk, _fr, _up, _dn, _lf, and _rt textures from the effects\skybox folder
FewClouds will display the cirrusonly_bk _fr, _up, _dn, _lf, and _rt textures from the effects\skybox folder
ScatteredClouds will display the scatteredclouds_bk, _fr, _up, _dn, _lf, and _rt textures from the effects\skybox folder
BrokenClouds will display the lowcumulusonhorizon_bk, _fr, _up, _dn, _lf, and _rt textures from the effects\skybox folder
ThickClouds will display the grayhorizon_bk _fr, _up, _dn, _lf, and _rt textures from the effects\skybox folder
If you don't have it explicitly defined in the weather xml file it seems to default to the NoClouds version.


Within the weather xml files there is a parameter called fogcolor that uses a 10 number sequence to define it's color. This is a decimal that converts to hexidecimal as FF followed by the Red, Green and Blue color values as numbers from 00 (darkest) to FF (lightest). A pure gray would have R = G = B. For example scatteredclouds4low.xml has the BackgroundWeather fogcolor as 4288789972 which converts to FF A1 BD D4 which is a light blue grey R=161, G = 189, B = 212. The choice of this shade will have a significant impact on how well the fog will blend into the skybox background colors. AnKors latest shaders address the grey band that frequently was seen along the horizon, but they cannot completely make up for poorly matched fog/skybox colors.


For the skyboxes in this pack the optimal values are:
NoClouds = 4288789972
FewClouds = 4288789716
ScatteredClouds = 4287013048
BrokenClouds = 4290432475
ThickClouds = 4285757562


I've made a few other edits to some of weather xml files to eliminate the flickering line that forms when a cloud texture intersects the surface of the terrain. This was generally done only where it was quite noticable and was accomplished by raising the minimum altitude of individual cloud effect entries.


The cloud texture dds files have also been checked and edited to eliminate any stray non-transparent corners or edges that may have snuck in the aplha layer.

[mongoose]

Interesting, as at some time you must have passed these to me as I have them in my install. The notes are the same. I don't have Photoshop.only paint.net and gimp, and to tell you the truth, some of your explanations are over my head. However, I am very keen on dense haze (as in over the Rhine/Rhur industrial areas), and I think have mentioned this before. Could I just use fog and change the fog color to a murky brownish color?

I am making template 'boxes' for various areas in England and Europe, so they can be used for differential weather.

[mongoose]

Continuing this thread, I note I did a similar old one in 2018; not much progress since then!http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...n-weather-xmls


Is there a weather sdk or anything around? I would like to get something for the project knowledge base thread eventually. Several things to understand,

Background weather; its role.

What I have from John aka SPQR, is
"background weather somewhere. Usually this is where your plane takes off and lands. From practice, your plane must fly into a "WeatherObject" or weather cell zone from a background area for the weather to change. The background weather can be as nice or as nasty as you wish. It will be the default weather effect when you are between other weathers."


The there is precipType="NoPrecip"I have no idea where the parameters such as "NoPrecip" or "LightRain" come from, and not all mission weather has this info. The same applies to entries under "<WeatherObject"



skyboxCloudType="ThickClouds" For instance I have no idea where "ThickClouds", or "BrokenClouds" come from as a search in a couple of installs finds nothing similar.




MaxAltitude="-90" MinAltitude="-100" What are these values referring to? The same for entries under "<WeatherObject"


fogColor="4288987369" all mission xmls seem to have similar and I assume applies to background weather? Is it necessary?




Windspeed="12" windDir="260" These values seem to be applicable not only to the BackgroundWeather, but also to WeatherObject(s)?


<CloudLayer cloudfile="CloudCirroCumulus.xml seems relatively clear and refers to xmls under *\weather\clouds

CloudRadius="10000" CloudCount="11" could do with explanation




This info seems quite clear in the box withing which certain weather is activated within "<WeatherObject........</WeatherObject>
<Bounds>
<Point Lat="N51 35" Lon="E0 20" />
<Point Lat="N51 10" Lon="E0 20" />
<Point Lat="N51 35" Lon="E0 42" />
<Point Lat="N51 10" Lon="E0 42" />
</Bounds>
This info seems quite clear in the box withing which certain weather is activated within
"<WeatherObject
........
</WeatherObject>






I have also found some interesting weather\missions files, such as weatherspot1.xml all the way to weatherspot16b.xml. I have no idea who made these, but I would like to know. ( EDIT: I think they come from the Mosquito add on by Abacus) They have lines such as

<!--WP4 Final Weather-->
<WeatherObject precipType="LightRain" MaxAltitude="2800" MinAltitude="-100" Windspeed="12" windDir="170" >
<Bounds>
<Point Lat="N51 03" Lon="W0 45" />
<Point Lat="N50 56" Lon="W0 45" />
<Point Lat="N51 03" Lon="W0 38" />
<Point Lat="N50 56" Lon="W0 38" />
</Bounds>

<CloudLayer cloudfile="cloudCumulusSmall.xml" CloudType="ScatteredClouds" CloudRadius="40000" CloudCount="36" Lightning="noLightning" MinAltitude="1300" MaxAltitude="1300" fogColor="4288987369" />
<CloudLayer cloudfile="cloudFog.xml" CloudType="ScatteredClouds" CloudRadius="15000" CloudCount="85" Lightning="noLightning" MinAltitude="200" MaxAltitude="700" fogColor="4288987369" />
<CloudLayer cloudfile="CloudCumuloStratus.xml" CloudType="ScatteredClouds" CloudRadius="20000" CloudCount="45" Lightning="noLightning" MinAltitude="600" MaxAltitude="1000" fogColor="4288987369" />

</WeatherObject>

which seemto be related to waypoints. I assume these are missionm specific , but I am not sure if the line <!--WP1 Weather-->, etc., actually have an active effect. So if that line was not therer, would not the weather under
<WeatherObject
....
</WeatherObject>
still work.


I have left large gaps between sections, so anyone quoting can just do so in the gaps. I really would like weather better explained. Why do I feel that rbp71854 and or O-1Driver used to know about weather files??

[MajorMagee]

There is a setting in the weather xml files called skyboxcloudType that can have a few different predefined descriptions:

NoClouds (and ThinClouds) will display the clear_bk, _fr, _up, _dn, _lf, and _rt textures from the effects\skybox folder
FewClouds will display the cirrusonly_bk _fr, _up, _dn, _lf, and _rt textures from the effects\skybox folder
ScatteredClouds will display the scatteredclouds_bk, _fr, _up, _dn, _lf, and _rt textures from the effects\skybox folder
BrokenClouds will display the lowcumulusonhorizon_bk, _fr, _up, _dn, _lf, and _rt textures from the effects\skybox folder
ThickClouds will display the grayhorizon_bk _fr, _up, _dn, _lf, and _rt textures from the effects\skybox folder

If you don't have it explicitly defined in the weather xml file it seems to default to the NoClouds version.

As far as I know the use of these particular terms in relation to one another is hard coded.

[mongoose]

Thanks Andy. That at least answers the skyboxCloudType question. In fact you had sort of answered that in your earlier post above; I should have checked!

Maybe precipType is somewhat similar, although what the predefinitions are I have yet to know.

[MajorMagee]

Yes the precip type names are also preset.

NoRain
LightRain
HeavyRain
Snow

[mongoose]

So is there a doc on CFS3 weather somewhere, or have people just had to work it out themselves?

[MajorMagee]

I never found one.

[mongoose]

I never found one.

A pity so just a long learning process! BTW I noticed in your post above that your 'square' was not a square, so can one make any quadrilateral? That would be good! (In fact any polygon??)

yours
<Bounds>
<Point Lat="N52 54" Lon="E3 41"/>
<Point Lat="N49 22" Lon="E0 2"/>
<Point Lat="N51 9" Lon="W4 48"/>
<Point Lat="N54 16" Lon="W11 14"/>

[gecko]

I have found that seemingly any shape and any number of points is possible. Very small areas of weather seem to be less reliable.

[MajorMagee]

My biggest problem was always getting the coordinates to be in the right place. Testing involves making a matching mission to verify everything.

If you do polygons be careful to get the order right, and don't overlap regions. Like ghostbusters, crossing the lines can blow things up.

[gecko]

A simple method is to use the mission builder. You can set up a frontline in the shape of the area you want the weather in exactly where you want it to be. Save the mission and then copy the coordinates from the mission xml to your weather file. The coordinates in the mission file are in a different format from what you see in the weather files, but CFS3 will still accept it.

[gecko]

Oh, and regions can overlap, but they won't mix in the overlap area. I forget if it's the entry closer to the top of the file that takes priority or the lower one.

[mongoose]

A simple method is to use the mission builder. You can set up a frontline in the shape of the area you want the weather in exactly where you want it to be. Save the mission and then copy the coordinates from the mission xml to your weather file. The coordinates in the mission file are in a different format from what you see in the weather files, but CFS3 will still accept it.

So manipulate the front line to make polygons and then use those coordinates? There seem to be some debate on order of entries; I have been using in order, top left-right, then bottom left-right, or should it be clockwise sll the way?

[MajorMagee]

I always thought it was clockwise around the perimeter.

[gecko]

Hmm, I wonder if that's the reason some of my attempts mysteriously didn't work. The order of points might be important. But yes James, that's how I've done it using the frontline.