Software questions

[Mick]

I have some questions for anyone who is running Windows 10.

After much research and creative hacking I’ve been forced to abandon my hope of building a brand new computer that would run Win7pro. My techie friend has determined that new motherboard architecture is just too new for Win7 and a later operating system is required. (Dave, I remember that you said months ago that it couldn’t be done. You were right.)

I test drove W11 on a friend’s computer and quickly determined that I would switch to Apple before I’d have a W11 rig, even if it meant abandoning my hobby. We’ll, that’s not necessary. While it’s no longer possible to buy a W10 computer, it’s still possible to transplant W10 to a new system and get a license for it. So I now have W10 running on a brand new rig, though I still have to buy a license. (Probably tomorrow.). Next will come a virtual machine to run W7 or XP, maybe both.

Once the new rig is complete and completely functional, the next step is to install all my software. I’m wondering which programs will run in Win10 and which ones will need to run in a VM. So can any of you who have Win10 tell me whether any of these programs work in it?

MS Office 97: Word and Excel. (I know Outlook 97 won’t, don’t care about Access or Power Point.)

Outlook 2010.

Paint Shop Pro 7

DXTbmp

Panel Studio

Sierra Snapshot Express

Do you recall any programs related to FS that you could no longer run when went to Win10 from Win7 or Win8.1?

Thanks for any input. This information will help me determine what VM(s) I should get, a decision that I should make probably by tomorrow or the next day. (Yeah, I know, I should’ve thought to ask this much earlier.). And yes, I’ll post this in both the FS9 and FSX forums.

[Mick]

Forgot a couple, and this cursed device won’t let me make an edit to my initial post.

How about AFCAD and ADE9X?

[huub vink]

PSP7 and DTXbmp will work for sure as I using them under W10 as well.

My office version is a bit more modern. So I can't tell whether your version will run.

I'm not familiar with the other programs.

Cheers,
Huub

[zswobbie1]

All will run in Windows 11 as well.
I have Office 365 so I cannot comment on Office 97.
FS2004, FSX & P3D4.5 all run very smoothly as well.

[KC013]

I have Panel Studio running in Win 10.

[Mick]

Thanks for the replies. They are very reassuring!

I got some more encouraging replies in the FSX forum, where I copied my post because there are more FSX users these days.

If my techie friend Rob doesn’t get waylaid by another crisis, I might get the new rig licensed and running today and get started on installing software and recovering my stuff from backup. Alas, moving to a different operating system means I have to do it all manually, no one-click restoration like I could have done if I’d been able to stay with the same OS. (Moan, groan.)

But I’ll get it done and resume the long delayed B-45 project.

[huub vink]

And one thing what I forgot to mention, but which you will definitely will like. I have the feeling (can't prove this) that FS2004 and FSX run smoother under Windows 10 than they did under XP and Windows 7.

Cheers,
Huub

[Sbob]

Mick, if it helps, I run PSP 6 on my Win10 (64 bit) rig with no real issues. *
I also tried an old trial-ware version of PSP 7 and it ran fine, I'm just more comfortable with PSP 6.

One thing I've noticed with Win 10, you get used to it fairly quickly and its more stable than the older OS's, just make sure you have CCleaner installed for after you get those forced updates. These new Win updates tend to leave some garbage behind and you'll want to clean up your HD/SSD and especially your Registry after an update.
BTW, you may still be able to find PSP 6-8 boxed sets (CDs plus the manuals) on Amazon or the other online book stores for cheap. They install with no issues besides the "Open with" problem.

For the rest, I have most of the stuff installed that you listed (besides the MS busy-ware titles). The one concern may be Afcad. Afcad2 (for FS9) runs with no issues but the older version has some features that Windows really doesn't like (security related). Someone may have gotten the original Afcad to run on Win 10, but I gave up on it. If I have to putter around with Afcad files for FS2002, I break out my old Vista tower rig and do the work there then transfer the file over to the new(er) tower.


*- My only issue with PSP 6 in Win 10 is assigning file types that will automatically open in PSP. Not sure if I did something wrong during the initial set-up or Win 10 just doesn't trust old software, but those handy "PSPbrouse" icons won't work unless I highlight them first then right-click and use the "Open With" function. Besides the PSPbrouse icons, everything works fine.

[Jorge]

And one thing what I forgot to mention, but which you will definitely will like. I have the feeling (can't prove this) that FS2004 and FSX run smoother under Windows 10 than they did under XP and Windows 7.

Cheers,
Huub

I agree with Huub on this one. I still use Win7-64 for my main system, but I have another copy of FS2004 on my Surface laptop to check for issues. This one is without frills or changes. It definately runs "better" than Win7-64. I think it has something to do with the way it swaps files, but don't quote me on that. Just a guess based on things I've read in the past, but it's been a while.

All I know is that it does appear to run smoother. I'm not upgrading just yet since I don't have the $$$ to change from my old Asus G-73 just yet.

Jorge
Miami, FL

PS: Since you have to do a fresh install, would you be interested in setting up a copy of my PW setup to see how it would look? I can send you the files. Just be warned, they are MANY.

[Mick]

Thanks for the comments and advice.

I plan to supplement W10 with a Win7 virtual machine, or maybe even virtual XP. Rob (techie friend) tells me that VMs have come a long way since the virtual XP that came with W7pro, which didn’t come close to working as advertised. In fact, it seems that it’s possible to get VMs for both XP and W7 for the price of one.

I feel pretty good about the FS stuff. It looks like everything I use should run in W10 except Shiny, which wouldn’t even work in W7 and is the only thing I could get to work in W7pro’s virtual XP.

Aside from FS stuff, my biggest concern was my favorite photo editing and enhancement program, Sierra Snapshot Express, a freebie I got with the printer I bought with my first computer, a Win98 rig. The publisher said it wouldn’t run in XP but with a bit of mild hackage I got it working in XP and then 7pro, except for a couple minor features that I never used anyway. In the intervening years I’ve tried a number of other photo programs and none of them were as easy to use and effective for cleaning up and enhancing photos. I can take photos in cloudy conditions and easily make the sun shine in the pictures. And I’ve used it sometimes when working on textures for FS models too.

Barring any sudden developments in Rob’s life, which has been a never-ending series of crises since before my old rig crashed due to the motherboard going belly up, we hope to get the system set up and ready to install software in the next couple days.

Thanks again for the comments and advice!

[Sbob]

Mick; once you get the new rig up and running and you're feeling froggy, could I request one more repaint for the B-47 Stratojet project?

The 376th BW ran B-47's out of Barksdale AFB. No real highlights to this aside from an Airman/Tech who kept the -47's "K System" running and in calibration.

That Airman's name was George Carlin and it was only later in his life when he talked about it during his early days. He had made friends with the owner of a radio station in Shreveport and started moonlighting there as a DJ when he wasn't on duty.

In other words, could you paint one for Rufus?

[Mick]

I could if I had a photo and probably also a clean image of the wing badge. “Probably” the wing insignia because in the earliest days of the 47’s service it wasn’t carried. The wing badge became standard with the introduction of the SAC sash.

A photo would also show whether the planes had the early scheme with overall silver or the later scheme that added the white undersides, and the SAC sash and wing badge. Forward of the tail most SAC planes were pretty much standardized, but there were some exceptions. The tail was less standardized in the presentation of the serial and the color and width of the fin band.

Right now I don’t have access to my image library so I don’t know if I have a good copy of the wing insignia, and I don’t have the time to dig out and peruse my B-47 references for a photo. If a photo is available I could see the other uncertain features.

For now though, the skin would have to fall on my to-do list somewhere behind the B-45 project. It may be weeks before I can get back to that, and I have probably months of work to do on the skins. It will be quite a while.

For now all I can suggest is that you ask again after the B-45 is released. In the meantime, if you can do the research on color scheme and markings, that would help. If I have to do the research as well as the painting it will surely be quite a bit longer before I can fit the skin into my extremely overloaded project schedule.

[Sbob]

I already kind of hashed one out.

The 376th BW is tough to find. I know the B-47 Wiki page showed a side view of a 376th BW B-47. What I did was start with the texture folder for the 390th BW (later model) and added the "LIBERANDOS" wing shield (the 376th was a B-24 wing during WWII and flew out of the UK and Libya, most famously on the Ploesti refinery raid). As far as I can tell, they used the same basic lay out as your 390th BW texture, I just crammed the new shield on the nose and changed the gray tail tip to white. For the record, what I have now is not really ready for an upload, its more like a hatchet job on your 390th BW textures (and I wouldn't upload it without your go-ahead, anyway). The 1950's BW shield is basically this:



I found a better version of the shield that wasn't a patch, I just can't remember where the bleep I found it.
Digging into SAC bomb wings can be a real challenge at times.

[Jorge]

Checked under the 376th Bomb Group and got these. They may be of help to "bash" together an actual badge?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/376th_...erations_Group

and an image of the emblems which could probably be changed to have the colors from the cloth patch?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:3...onary_Wing.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:3...oup_Emblem.jpg

Hope it helps a little.

Jorge
Miami, FL

PS: I found out while serving in Iraq from 2004-2005 that the USAF wings' groups actually have the "battle honors" of the wing's predecessors. When stationed at FOB Summerall we'd go to BN HQ at Balad. The USAF unit we shared the base with there was the 332nd Air Expeditionary Wing. Their Ops Group was the 332nd Operations Group, which had the battle honors of the famed 332nd Fighter Group - Tuskegee Airmen. If you can't find the "wing" info, try the group instead.

[Mick]

I already kind of hashed one out.

The 376th BW is tough to find. I know the B-47 Wiki page showed a side view of a 376th BW B-47. What I did was start with the texture folder for the 390th BW (later model) and added the "LIBERANDOS" wing shield (the 376th was a B-24 wing during WWII and flew out of the UK and Libya, most famously on the Ploesti refinery raid). As far as I can tell, they used the same basic lay out as your 390th BW texture, I just crammed the new shield on the nose and changed the gray tail tip to white. For the record, what I have now is not really ready for an upload, its more like a hatchet job on your 390th BW textures (and I wouldn't upload it without your go-ahead, anyway). The 1950's BW shield is basically this:
I found a better version of the shield that wasn't a patch, I just can't remember where the bleep I found it.
Digging into SAC bomb wings can be a real challenge at times.

Great! It would’ve been a long time before I got a chance to even think of working on it.

Make sure you’re using a skin as base textures from a plane of the exact same variant as the plane you’re painting. Some of the models used slightly different textures than others, or wore some textures slightly differently. Minor things but they could fool you into doing unnecessary work to make them fit the model properly.

Feel free to use my textures as a base, and to post the skin when you’re happy with it.

[huub vink]

Mick,

There is also software which won't run under Windows 10. For instance software based on Ivan "Archisoft" Hsu's MDLC. So this includes "shiny" by "wuhwuzdat" and I think Morton (MkMDL) and Allen (improved version of Mk_Mdl_Ver 2.0+) both did a similar utility, which used the original MDLC as base.

This is a utility I still miss. I know there are clever alternatives, but I never took the time to learn how to work with these.....

Cheers,
Huub

[vinci]

Does installer work with windows 10, because by me they don't start ?

[Sbob]

Checked under the 376th Bomb Group and got these. They may be of help to "bash" together an actual badge?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:3...oup_Emblem.jpg

Hope it helps a little.

Jorge
Miami, FL

PS: I found out while serving in Iraq from 2004-2005 that the USAF wings' groups actually have the "battle honors" of the wing's predecessors. When stationed at FOB Summerall we'd go to BN HQ at Balad. The USAF unit we shared the base with there was the 332nd Air Expeditionary Wing. Their Ops Group was the 332nd Operations Group, which had the battle honors of the famed 332nd Fighter Group - Tuskegee Airmen. If you can't find the "wing" info, try the group instead.

Jorge, that was the one I used. I just flattened it down a bit to fit over the old badge.

I had similar issues doing repaints for the Alphasim B-52's. For instance, I did a B-52G for the 43rd Strat Wing at Andersen AFB (Guam) from the mid 1980's. The 43rd is easy to research because they ran the ARCLIGHT missions over Viet Nam. Where it gets tricky is figuring out what happened to them after the war ended. The 43rd stayed in commission on Guam until 1989 and specialized in conventional B-52 missions (iron bombs and missiles), the tricky part was whether they had their own aircraft or if they were just a "tenant" wing that used "borrowed" BUFFs from the wings that donated TAD crews. I assumed they had their own aircraft and crews because I read that they had to abandon a B-52G on the base when they found heavy corrosion in the main wing "pins" and no one was crazy enough to fly it all the way back to Tinker AFB. This wasn't "Old 100", a B-52D which became the "gate guard" and ARCLIGHT Memorial but a modernized B-52G with all of the "777" updates.

Who knew you had to be a detective if you wanted to do FS repaints?

[Mick]

Mick,

There is also software which won't run under Windows 10. For instance software based on Ivan "Archisoft" Hsu's MDLC. So this includes "shiny" by "wuhwuzdat" and I think Morton (MkMDL) and Allen (improved version of Mk_Mdl_Ver 2.0+) both did a similar utility, which used the original MDLC as base.
This is a utility I still miss. I know there are clever alternatives, but I never took the time to learn how to work with these.....
Cheers,
Huub

I’ve used Shiny quite often, not just to make models reflective but to adjust specular gloss. It wouldn’t run in Win7, but it turned out to be the only program I tried that worked in the XP virtual machine that’s built into Win7pro. It appears that virtual machines have come a long way since then, and I will have a VM for Win7pro, or maybe one for XP. Maybe both.

[Mick]

… Who knew you had to be a detective if you wanted to do FS repaints?

I knew! I spend at least as much time researching as I spend painting. Probably more. Maybe much more. Sometimes it takes a whole lot of digging and perusing to come up with just one little tidbit that’s needed to complete a skin. Hours and hours and hours!

[Sbob]

Does installer work with windows 10, because by me they don't start ?

One of the things I learned about Win10 is to install stuff and then let Win10 "think about it" for an update or two.
Keep it installed for six months or so then see what happens.
Unless Windows sees "security concerns" its 50/50 if the program will eventually launch and run with no issues.

[Sbob]

Mick,

..and we appreciate all the work it takes.

As a "thank you", have you checked out Joe Baugher yet?

http://joebaugher.com/

Every freaking bureau number for everything that flew from WWI up to 2010.
Most aircraft also have a short "bio" included if something significant happened to it.

Its both an aircraft painter's dream and curse. What you were sure of might not have happened.

[Jorge]

Mick,

..and we appreciate all the work it takes.

As a "thank you", have you checked out Joe Baugher yet?

http://joebaugher.com/

Every freaking bureau number for everything that flew from WWI up to 2010.
Most aircraft also have a short "bio" included if something significant happened to it.

Its both an aircraft painter's dream and curse. What you were sure of might not have happened.

Yep! Can't recommend this one enough! It's where I got the historical numbers for the F4B, SBU, and BFC I did for Saratoga a little while ago. Can't say they're matched up properly, but at least they match the airframes.

Trying to find info is almost 80-90 percent for me so far. I can't remember how much time I spent trying to find info on NYRBA for the Commodore. Same for the colors.

Can't thank you enough for all the paints in the past, Mick! Looking forward to the B-45 in my Classic setup. Which of them is it? I know of David Wooster and there's another one which I can't remember now. Maybe Kazunori Ito?

Jorge
Miami, FL

[Allen]

You can also grab otya128/winevdm. This lets old 16-bit Windows programs runs. It will NOT make MDLC works as it looks like MDLC is 16 bit DOS program.

https://github.com/otya128/winevdm/releases/tag/v0.8.0

[Mick]

Mick,

As a "thank you", have you checked out Joe Baugher yet?

http://joebaugher.com/

Oh my goodness! I don’t know how I missed that one! Thank you!

For years I never worried about correct serials on most planes; usually just if the particular plane had special historic significance, or if the serial was in big billboard characters. The B-47 project was, I think, the first time I made sure that every skin had the correct serial no matter how inconspicuous it was on the airplane. I’m doing that on the B-45 project too.

I haven’t seen the Baugher site before. I’ve made great use of Forgotten Jets:

http://forgottenjets.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/

and Forgotten Rotors:

http://forgottenrotors.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/

They also have serial numbers and potted history of every plane and helo, but not every time period. They cover the classic era very well, if you’re looking for post-WW2 into at least the sixties American military jets and helicopters. They were indispensable for the B-47, B-45 and HO2S/H-37 projects.

Baugher casts his net much more widely and will be useful on a wider variety of projects.