JF BAE 146 Release Price Drop

[Twice43]

From Avsim, post #: Page 12

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/6...e/12/#comments

T43

[Spook48]

59,95 euro .. hmmm .. makes me wonder what the original pricing was .

[SeanTK]

59,95 euro .. hmmm .. makes me wonder what the original pricing was .

It was originally set at £59.99/€74.95/$79.95 with a 20% discount for users of the old XP/P3D version.

[DennyA]

Good lord. Well, that'll keep it niche.

Pretty hilarious to see all the joy over $65.

Absolutely worth it for the people looking for a study-level 1980s commuter jet. Not doubting the realism and detail is there.

But at that price, they're not going to reach far outside that niche.

[jankees]

If I compare that to the price of the 247 or new f-104....

[bazzar]

I will never understand this argument over pricing. There appears to be no value placed on workmanship, knowledge, skill or build quality.
No distinction to be made between models and products either. It appears that price is the only consideration and driver.

On this basis then, all plastic model kits should be priced the same, regardless of build quality, scale or inclusions.

All this is going to do is create a race to the bottom. Who will be first to sacrifice years of hard work and experience to become the lowest priced add-on in the market? We'll see no doubt but it's not a race I am interested in. I'd rather leave the field.

[jankees]

Baz, in general people would like to spend as little as possible, ànd they want quality. In this case, I just bought the 104 and 247 for around 20 euros. I have yet to try the 247, but I absolutely love the TF-104, and am looking forward to trying the F-104. I think that they offer excellent quality for an excellent price. Then there is the 146, for triple the amount. Less interesting plane (for me), so I won't bother. Had it been 20, I would probably have bought it and maybe done some paints for it, but not for 60+.
Similarly, I bought the PMDG DC-6, but I will not buy the 737 for the same price, just not as interesting. However, it they offer for 20..
But if you bring us the DC-3 for 60, then I will be tempted...but less is fine too 😘

[bazzar]

The point I am trying to make is that for some devs it is just not possible to create add-ons with the systems level of say this Bae 146 or features and detail of many of the more "study level" productions and make a worthwhile return on investment with price levels as low as are now being demanded. It simply is just not worth the time and effort. So, what we will end up with will be a lower standard of production and actually poorer value for money. That's the race to the bottom. One other casualty of all of this will be choice - that will reduce too. Take the incentive to make better, higher quality products away by reducing the ability to recover costs and make a profit and the industry is only going to head one way.

I for one, do not believe that these lower-priced offers are going to set any kind of trend. In practice, production costs have to be met. And they are not getting cheaper, believe me.

[keithb77]

But are not sales increasing with the much bigger market?

PMDG say they did for the DC-6, selling more in the first day than the FSX/P3D/Xplane models had to date...
Would be interesting to see sales figures for other aircraft...

For me the 146 price is now just affordable

[bazzar]

Sales are better for MSFS than the others but then the production costs are also much higher. The simulator is more complex to develop for and depending on the subject, require skillsets and knowledge bases that have to be bought in. Very few front-line developers have these practitioners in-house. Those that do fair better than others who don't. There are only a precious few who are trustworthy, professional and competent operators so they get extremely busy,resulting in long wait times. It's a whole new ball-game to what has gone before.

[DennyA]

I'm not in any way devaluing the huge amount of effort that goes into creating quality add-ons, Baz. I've not regretted a penny I've spent on an AH product.

However, I've also worked in digital game retailing for over a decade, and I've seen impact pricing has on add-ons. The market for a $20 add-on is dramatically higher than the market for $50 add-ons. I mean, for some products it's not triple, it's probably ten-fold.

I can't get into specific details due to NDAs and crap, but I can say my experience tells me that add-on publishers have the potential to make more significantly more money in the end at the lower end of the price scale. And quality still matters. If Wing42 had done a Bredok3D-level Boeing247 it wouldn't be getting the sales it's getting at its current impressive quality level.

I'd have bought the BAE 146 in a second at $20. Because I appreciate quality and systems, I'd probably have bought it at $30. But at $60? I'm not interested enough in the plane. I'll spend that on a DC-3, a 727, or a T-34, because I have a strong interest in those planes. $20 is an impulse buy. $60 is a "do I need this? strongly considered purchase.

[bazzar]

At a $20 price-point sales would need to be lot higher wouldn't they. That's the old "halve the price and you'll sell twice as many" joke. What I am saying is that if the price drives the development, you will see a drop in features, inclusions and in some cases, quality. Developers will need to increase volume to keep cashflow and faster means less time on details. I disagree on your figures, from experience ourselves over 22 years, we have not seen the meteoric figures you mention. Better, yes, but as I have already said cost of production is disproportionately higher.

We have always had a market of choice. So, of course, if one isn't interested in a subject one doesn't buy. That has always been the case and not just in MSFS.

Right now, we are being inundated with (frustrated to put it kindly) requests for updates on the release of the DC-3. If we were to release what we felt were a less than perfect product, reviews and comment from the marketplace would also impact future sales so we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. I suspect JF feel very much the same.

[Tom Clayton]

I think that the people that understand what a true Study Level addon is, and are in that market, will be willing to pay for it. Then there are the "almost" planes that have a small amount of complexity, but not so much that it might become frustrating - such as Dean's work. Those seem to carry a decent price tag - not as low as a Carenado Cessna, but less than PMDG or this 146. Personally, one of the few things I miss about FS9 is the simplicity of most models, regardless of virtual weight. I could take a 747 and "kick the tires and light the fires" just as easily as a Piper. It was still more of a challenge to fly due to the fight dynamics, which was exactly the type of challenge I liked.

With the new sim, I've gotten to enjoy a realistic start sequence - especially with the PT6-powered models. And honestly, if I could operate this new 146 as easily as I did most planes in FS9, I'd probably pay upwards of $50 US if the 3D model met current standards. But with my limited time in the seat, I want to spend my time in the air, not fiddling with switches and knobs for 30 minutes first.

[keithb77]

with my limited time in the seat, I want to spend my time in the air, not fiddling with switches and knobs for 30 minutes first

Me too...and trying the Xplane demo of the JF 146 you can get airborne pretty quick - load with engines running, flaps to take-off, power up, brakes off and go

OK there was some annoying beeping and flashing and stern words from the minder but I'm sure a few minutes with the manual will allow a 2-minute setup and go...

Some would say we aren't getting full value this way, but it's all about getting the BEST value I think

------
Re impulse buys, the iniBuilds Airbus Beluga is at a ridiculous price for a day (75% off, £12) so even though it's for Xplane I bought it and resurrected Xplane to try it...first take-off pretty much as above, but also trimming the treetops for several miles till the speed crept up enough to climb. Its an amazing plane!

But nobody is suggesting that AAA addons should be sold for $20, though its reasonable to point out that too high a price will limit sales, too low a price will run into diminishing returns and somewhere in the middle is a price where maximum revenue (price * number sold) is achieved.

[bazzar]

The market like all markets will eventually settle naturally to a level. With the exception of special offers, sacrificial pricing and so on, in general, the old rule will still apply - you get what you pay for.

[StormILM]

Looking at the quality of work invested in the 146, it's a must buy for me on day one. I have noted that the prices on a number of new releases for FS2020 are what I would call a heck of a bargain, the Hawk being one of them.

[UnknownGuest12]

Perfectly understand and agree with Bazzar argumentation. But I only buy what I can pay, regardless everything else. I really don´t use or have the need for a "study" work. And I will not buy a lot of study works even if I could. No need for all those systems. So, I´ll buy only what I think I can afford. That´s why I own a FIAT car, not a Ferrari.. what´s expensive or a too much costly for me maybe isn´t for other person. That´s free market or capitalism, whatever...
regards

[K5083]

It's interesting to read discussions of FS addon pricing in the context of current controversies in games like Gran Turismo 7 where the cost of DLC cars has greatly spiked from past driving skins, up to levels similar to the higher priced FS planes (although there is a grind-to-buy option), and Pinball FX where the same is being done with new tables.

I see a little grumbling but never really a lot of controversy when an FS plane costs $60, even though this is the going rate for a AAA game that takes a studio hundreds of devs, a couple of years, and millions of dollars to create. Players of most other games would say that we are all "whales" being taken to the cleaners for paying such prices. But the FS user community is very receptive to the arguments that we are a super niche small market, the products are quite complex relative to DLC in other games (though I wonder sometimes if this is overstated), and the consumers demand a high level of fidelity. In short, despite the mild bellyaching, FS consumers are about the most understanding and generous around when it comes to accepting high prices for addons. That will continue as long as devs continue to respect us and release quality products, and not try some of the shenanigans that occur in other kinds of games, like nickel and diming us by charging for skins or other addons to addons.

August

[mgr]

On topic, some new screens released:
https://www.justflight.com/in-development/146-professional-microsoft-flight-simulator#20220408

Two of them: