The OFF DiD Standard. - Page 5
Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 101 to 124 of 124

Thread: The OFF DiD Standard.

  1. #101
    Polovski
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Siggi View Post
    Nobody made any requests Pol, Winder first stated he'd considered encrypting the pilot files originally, then said he would do it if enough people asked for it, then said he was going to do it regardless. I was against it at first (for the reasons mentioned above by Rick), then became ambivalent, then suggested making it a switchable option.

    I think the switchable option would be perfect, but I don't think trust is an issue anyway so I can't say it's high on my list of wants. For me the sim is already nigh-on perfect.
    Absolutely I'm just pointing out that 1 possibility mentioned of encrypting the pilot data to support this, does not suddenly mean we are out to stop people enjoying OFF .. that's dramatic and totally not correct - just trying to straighten that out.

    We have put options in the realism to support this already to make it easier to select, BUT nothing we do deliberately stops people enjoying OFF. We have as I say added many new options and features already to help people who want to play with less restrictions.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by cptroyce View Post
    In all my sim flying, I have never just stuck to the cockpit for the entire mission.
    Hey Royce,
    One way I have to make up for a lack of TIR is mapping the eyepoint views to my stick. I use a Saitek X52 and the stick has two hats. One I use for normal panning views, the other I have set up to move my eyepoint around the cockpit. This way, I can lean over the side to see forward for takeoff/landing, and I can move when the struts or wings are blocking my view. Another button serves to recenter. If you have some buttons to spare on your stick, I highly reccomend this method for all non TIR users.
    "I'd rather have a free bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy"

  3. #103
    cptroyce
    Guest
    Z- Thanks that's a great idea.
    I will get TiR eventually I suppose, but my wife thinks I'm "crazy" as it is with the flight sims and CoD/Crysis games.
    If I'm sitting at the PC with "head gear" on..well, she would probably:faint:

    Regards,
    Royce

  4. #104
    Giant2111
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by cptroyce View Post
    Z- Thanks that's a great idea.
    I will get TiR eventually I suppose, but my wife thinks I'm "crazy" as it is with the flight sims and CoD/Crysis games.
    If I'm sitting at the PC with "head gear" on..well, she would probably:faint:

    Regards,
    Royce
    Donīt worry about it. My wife is still married to me, even wit "antennas" on my head. :friday:

  5. #105

    So, as in any entertainment venue, it is the client who

    chooses his thrill.

    Thanks SIGGI for your contributions.

    In settings I am at 110% Realism, do warp, and even with TIR, switch to "hat views' to shoot and locate planes in battle. ( Guess I need to tweak the TIR?)

    So, perhaps a STICKY for all those who wish to fly with a DiD pilot, which I will do, or rather attempt, while keeping some of my other pilot's at the "Death on a Dice Roll", and WARP, not sure.


    Great topic.

    Like WINDER and POL's input, and it would make it even better, should more items such as "Gun Jam" be selected as an option. Not that it would make the DiD, but certainly for the newcomer, and me as I age, perhaps a selection I would care to make.

    THIS SIM IS ABSOLUTELY THE BEST


    Regards,

    british_eh

  6. #106
    Flame On!
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Hampton, South Carolina USA
    Age
    66
    Posts
    779
    originall posted by british_eh "Like WINDER and POL's input, and it would make it even better, should more items such as "Gun Jam" be selected as an option. Not that it would make the DiD, but certainly for the newcomer, and me as I age, perhaps a selection I would care to make."

    Whazzamatta british? Getiin' too old to swing a lil' ol' tack hammer?

    CJ
    ABIT IN9 32X-MAX nForce 680i SLI
    Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz
    OCZ Platinum Revision 2 4GB (4x1GB) DDR2 800
    EVGANvidiaGeForce8800GTX768MbGDDR

    Western Digital Caviar Green WD5000AADS 500GB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s

    Creative Sound Blaster Audigy SE 7.1 Sound Card

  7. #107

    Hmmph................

    You young whippersnapper's are sometimes just too much



    Cameljockey:Banane47:

    Whazzamatta british? Getiin' too old to swing a lil' ol' tack hammer?

    CJ
    [/quote]

  8. #108
    Mk2
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Polovski View Post
    Rick remember these are players discussing this not the OFF Team. Anything we do to support would likely be optional anyway not sure what the issue is. Even if we did do this with no options a tiny amount of players edit their pilots - (which is generally a bad idea anyway)? We have no intention of closing things down, we open things up by adding more and more options as you have seen in the recent patches??
    POV I for one would be strongly against it because (as an example) I just strated toying with the idea of keeping notes via the Pilot files to show up in game (what aces I battled, inconlusive fights etc) making it a real living log etc. I also like the mod aspect of any sim.

    If you do go forward and make it selectable in workshop...please be careful how it affects realism settings if at all.

    I can't stress that enough because it would have nothing to do with the pilots flying at 100 realism that are going to use warp and labels anyway (like me) and not bother with this DiD standard.

    In other words, I do not want to get knocked even 5 points for NOT using it etc.

  9. #109
    catch22
    Guest
    I like the concept ..... but .....
    • Resurrecting pilots should never be alllowed under any circumstances, accidental or otherwise. If he dies, stiff cheddar old boy. Dead is dead. Happens to the best of us. Encrypt I say !
    • Auto mixture should not be allowed. This is a cheat as far as I'm concerned.
    • Auto rudder should not be allowed. If you fly with a k/b or haven't at least got a twist stick why on earth would you sign up for this ?
    • Trim should not be allowed. This is a cheat as far as I'm concerned.
    Lastly, depending on what is switched on/off one can roam between 100% and (I think, last time I looked) 130% realism. There's almost too many choices. Perhaps just getting back to a "take it or leave it one choice only" 100% cap will be easier to police.

    Or will we get the elitist "130 percenters" skiting about whipping the virtual arses of the lowly "100/110/120 percenters". Hmmm ....actually sounds like fun :bananapowerslide:

  10. #110
    Giant2111
    Guest
    hi catch,

    I agree with you on the "resurecting thing". This is DiD. I never resurect my pilots. This is a mojor part of the thrill that OFF delivers.
    Automixture is nescessary, because some planes had it. there has been a thread around here.
    Autorudder is not cheatin`. It is givining you a major disadvantage when using it, and spoils a lot of fun.

    I think the standard, Siggi set for DiD, is fairly high. We should keep it like that.

    regards

  11. #111
    Siggi
    Guest
    I'm tending to agree on the resurrection issue. Even a computer malfunction can be encompassed as a realistic cause of death (a control-wire snapped etc). So I've amended the rules accordingly, resurrection is now forbidden under any circumstances. It removes any temptation whatsoever, in the 'heat of the moment', to classify a death as bogus under questionable circumstances.

    The OFF Campaign DiD Standard.
    This is intended for the added enjoyment of those vPilots who choose to make the OFF experience as realistic as it can be. "Realistic experience", in this case, will be my interpretation of it, as I apply that to the standard I created many years ago for RB2-3D, a number of other sims subsequently and a one-year+ online war...DiD (Dead is Dead).

    Some of the settings are open to debate. Mostly ones I've had in my own mind. Others may have differing opinions on them, and I'm open to consideration of those, but they will most likely make no way. This is not an expression of contempt, just that experience has shown that 'Rule by Commitee' doesn't work for DiD.

    DiD is also not intended to express contempt for those who play the sim by a 'lesser' standard. People play the game in whatever way they like, for whatever reasons they like. And their reasons are entirely valid for their own private purposes. But (BUT), if one wishes to express one's prowess in the public arena (for fun, ego, bragging-rights, light-hearted competitiveness etc) one should rightly be held to a common standard, otherwise the expression has no substantive meaning or value. DiD is intended to provide that standard, to put all those of a like mind on a level playing field as it were.

    So...OFF DiD:

    Workshop:

    Auto Mixture: Users' choice. Not all a/c of this period had a manual control, it doesn't significantly affect the player's ability to kill and with that in mind not all players can or need to be arsed with it. If you choose to enable it you are DiD+, but it's a very tiny weeny little plus.

    Auto Rudder: Users' choice. It should be OFF, but maybe you have no pedals and your stick doesn't twist. In fact, with it ON you suffer a disadvantage in combat.

    Invincible: OFF.
    Unlim Weapons: OFF.
    Unlim Fuel: OFF.
    Sun Glare: ON.
    G-Effects: ON.
    A/C Stress: ON.
    Force-feedback: Users' choice.
    Flight Model: Realistic.
    Weapon Effectiveness: Realistic.
    Claims: Normal.
    Ground Fire: Normal.
    Death: Hard (Dead is Dead).
    Main Guns: Normal.

    Rear Guns: Wide. The choice here is between ALL gunners having, potentially, preternatural abilities vs ALL gunners having generally average abilities. I've been very nicely plastered under wide, by one to three 2-seater gunners I tried to approach, so it does NOT make 2-seaters a turkey-shoot.

    Wind effects: ON.
    Weather Mode: Historical.
    Weather Dynamics: Dynamic.
    Campaign Mission Frequency: Historical.
    A/C Spawn Control: OFF Campaign.

    Parameter Editor Panel in CFS3 Config (via button in Workshop).

    All settings in there are at users' choice EXCEPT:

    Targetting Cone: Disabled.
    HUD: Disabled.
    Simulation Warnings: Disabled.
    Time Compression: Disabled.
    Advisor Messages: Disabled.
    Chat: Disabled.

    In-Game Functions:

    TAC: Allowed. Rule: It must be switched OFF as soon as a/c spotted on it turn to red, irrespective of whether or not you have visually acquired them. It must not be turned on again until you are 100% sure combat has ceased and you are unlikely to be re-engaged by those same enemy a/c.

    Labels: Not allowed.

    MAP: Allowed. The game map, real maps and the landscape over which you fly are not sufficiently corrobative of one another to make real navigation more than an unrealistically difficult and hazardous chore.

    Auto-Pilot: Allowed. It's a straight & level device, use of it will put you at a disadvantage in fact.

    Visual Zoom: Allowed, it's binoculars.

    Trim: Allowed. Rule. Only at the very beginning of a flight (on the runway) and not to be touched thereafter. It's use simulates a pilot and his fitters setting up his a/c on the ground to his liking. Fly your a/c in QC, find out how many clicks of each put your plane as you like it, then apply those same clicks to your a/c on the runway in campaign before each flight.

    Real Time: All campaign missions must be flown in real time. To do otherwise gives a pilot an unrealistic advantage in terms of fatigue and attentiveness thereof. It also de-values the stock you invest in your character, which itself tends to lead to unrealistic behaviour in combat, which can skew combat-results.

    External Views: Not allowed, except to take screenies while paused. All flying and fighting must take place while in the cockpit with cockpit visible.

    Pilot resurrection: Forbidden, under any circumstances.

    NB: The sim's realism rating must be at least at 100% by whatever combination of settings available.

    That's it. If I've missed anything please advise.



    That's the DiD standard, open to modification for a very limited time subject to persuasive proposals. But please don't hold your breath (for anyone who gives a hoot). If you wish to be regarded by it you are on your honour to observe it faithfully and may indicate your desire to such end by the inclusion of the acronym "DiD" anywhere you bally well please.

    I'll finish with the usual elitist bit..."DiD, sorts the men from the boys, the wheat from the chaff, the real vAces from the arcade wannabes!"

  12. #112
    Mk2
    Guest
    can you put the labels on momentarily to see what ace you are fighting , just for fun purposes?

    I hate to shoot Manfred down and not know it!

  13. #113
    Siggi
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Mk2 View Post
    can you put the labels on momentarily to see what ace you are fighting , just for fun purposes?

    I hate to shoot Manfred down and not know it!
    Yes. It was asked already actually.

  14. #114
    Over50
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Mk2 View Post
    can you put the labels on momentarily to see what ace you are fighting , just for fun purposes?

    I hate to shoot Manfred down and not know it!
    Well at least you're surviving long enough to see who is shooting at you....which hasn't been the case for me. I just get into a furball and WHAM...I'm being peppered with consistent dead-on hits from one or more AC THAT DON'T APPEAR IN REAR SNAP VIEW. I wasn't aware WW1 technology included cloaking..

  15. #115
    Siggi
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Over50 View Post
    Well at least you're surviving long enough to see who is shooting at you....which hasn't been the case for me. I just get into a furball and WHAM...I'm being peppered with consistent dead-on hits from one or more AC THAT DON'T APPEAR IN REAR SNAP VIEW. I wasn't aware WW1 technology included cloaking..
    They'll shoot at one from any angle they can, not just from 6 o'clock. And from 6 o'clock they start firing from so far away that one often can't see them. And the range is such that one turns earlier than one should, giving them a chance to hit one with a sustained and easy deflection-shot.

    I don't take hits very often, and when I do they are usually few. I'm not sure why that is, other than I don't fly straight for very long at a time, I'm usually twisting and turning after a target, which must put off pursuit.

  16. #116
    Giant2111
    Guest
    Keep altering altitude and directions. Your pilots will thank you for it:friday:The flak over the frontline is terrible and pilotz from zhe othzer zide are far better sniperz zhan me.

  17. #117
    catch22
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Giant2111 View Post
    Automixture is nescessary, because some planes had it. there has been a thread around here.

    Autorudder is not cheatin`. It is givining you a major disadvantage when using it, and spoils a lot of fun.

    I think the standard, Siggi set for DiD, is fairly high. We should keep it like that.

    regards
    G'day Giant,

    Well here's another 2 bob's worth ....

    If most WW1 planes did not have auto mixture (I think that's right isn't it ?) then majority rules and it shouldn't be allowed. For those few with auto mixture does it make any difference if auto is turned off ? My major beef with this is if you use auto mixture on a plane that doesn't have auto mixture and should be adjusted manually then that is a cheat. Simple as that and as Siggi says "I shall not be swayed" !

    As for auto-rudder it just ain't natural or realistic for WW1 aircraft.... and the whole idea of this DiD business is to be as realistic as virtually possible isn't it ?

    Both should go damn it


    :bananapowerslide:

  18. #118
    Siggi
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    G'day Giant,

    Well here's another 2 bob's worth ....

    If most WW1 planes did not have auto mixture (I think that's right isn't it ?) then majority rules and it shouldn't be allowed. For those few with auto mixture does it make any difference if auto is turned off ? My major beef with this is if you use auto mixture on a plane that doesn't have auto mixture and should be adjusted manually then that is a cheat. Simple as that and as Siggi says "I shall not be swayed" !

    As for auto-rudder it just ain't natural or realistic for WW1 aircraft.... and the whole idea of this DiD business is to be as realistic as virtually possible isn't it ?

    Both should go damn it


    :bananapowerslide:
    Do you know which a/c had auto-mixture and which didn't? I don't have a clue. And those that didn't, was it controlled via a button on the dashboard or via a lever? Because it's not very realistic to have to find the control on a keyboard if the real ones were on a lever.

    Those without a twist-rudder, or pedals, are already penalised. Having no independant rudder-control is a huge disadvantage in a dogfight. So I'm unable to understand why you think auto-rudder should be banned.

  19. #119
    Darth Gixxer
    Guest
    While I like the idea of a common standard in principle, there are some things I have to take issue with.

    If you're going to insist on no warp for maximum immersion then I'd have to suggest you should also insis that everyone should chug a couple of large mouthfuls of castor oil before they embark on a mission. And stay in their seat, regardless of the consequences.

    There's a reason why WW1 pilots were referred to as "Greasy Breeches" you know. And it wasn't the expertise of their dhoby teams, I can assure. you. No, sitting there for a couple of hourse breathing castor oil fumes will have that effect...

    None of this pause button nonsense, either - that's hardly realistic is it? You need to pee? Do it in your seat, like they would have done there.

    Alternatively perhaps we could recognise thta most of us actually have to fit our simming in around Real Life (TM) and as such accept that warping, while not ultra realistic is an acceptable compromise. In the same way that we don't get someone to hand swing the prop.

    We could also remember that rotary engines, especially early on, generally only had 2 throttle positions - running or not. Slowing down was achieved by flicking the magnetos on and off. Get it right and you achieved fairly accurate control. Get it wrong and you achieved a glider.

    But don't get me wrong, I'm being picky and perhaps have my tongue a little way in my cheek. Perhaps.

    Let's adopt a standard and work towards it. But I'd urge you to reconsider warping as otherwise the only people able to adhere to it will be media stereotypical computer simmers (single geeky blokes with no life outside their virtual world), retirees (I salute you) and kids. Us regular guys who juggle this with the 2 or 3 real jobs we need to keep body, soul and famil together won't get a look-in.

    DG

    PS One other thing. I'm a pilot. Spending an hour in the cockpit of a virtual plane at 60mph is, frankly, boring. And that's NOT why I go simming...

  20. #120
    Smokey
    Guest
    Siggi,

    My choices under weapon effectivness are: Normal, Strong, Strongest.
    I'm assuming you mean Normal here instead of Realistic. Is this correct?

    I find that setting rear guns to wide increases difficulty by 10% over the
    Normal setting. Is this your intention?

  21. #121
    Rick Rawlings
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Siggi View Post
    Because it's not very realistic to have to find the control on a keyboard if the real ones were on a lever.

    This is where you run into trouble. Everything is finding a control on a keyboard! These planes are fly by wire. As catch 22 reminded me above, I remember the RB3D boards years ago where people would argue every little bit of realism and forget that you don't actually die if you are shot.

    Looking back at Mk2 saying that no warp was killing him, I thought about that a bit. Looking at his avatar and the N28 as his sig, I deduced that he was probably doing a lot of flying for the Hat-In-The-Ring squadron. Just for kicks, I started a US career in the first pursuit group and did a couple of missions. Cycling through, I found the shortest mission I could get was 244 miles. 244 miles! That's over three hours of flying. If he could somehow fly 1 mission a day real time, non-warp and had to fly three missions a day in game time to progress the campaign and started in September 1918, it would take him about eight months of his real life just to finish one campaign. And who can devote 3 hours a day to playing video games?

    I understand you want to create a standard, but don't forget people like Mk2, who is a valuable and helpful member of this forum, or people like Over50 who contribute thoughtful input on other viewpoints.

    I guess what I'm saying is just be careful you don't go from to , you would defeat part of what you were trying to accomplish.

    respectfully,

    RR

  22. #122
    Siggi
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Rawlings View Post
    This is where you run into trouble. Everything is finding a control on a keyboard! These planes are fly by wire. As catch 22 reminded me above, I remember the RB3D boards years ago where people would argue every little bit of realism and forget that you don't actually die if you are shot.

    Looking back at Mk2 saying that no warp was killing him, I thought about that a bit. Looking at his avatar and the N28 as his sig, I deduced that he was probably doing a lot of flying for the Hat-In-The-Ring squadron. Just for kicks, I started a US career in the first pursuit group and did a couple of missions. Cycling through, I found the shortest mission I could get was 244 miles. 244 miles! That's over three hours of flying. If he could somehow fly 1 mission a day real time, non-warp and had to fly three missions a day in game time to progress the campaign and started in September 1918, it would take him about eight months of his real life just to finish one campaign. And who can devote 3 hours a day to playing video games?

    I understand you want to create a standard, but don't forget people like Mk2, who is a valuable and helpful member of this forum, or people like Over50 who contribute thoughtful input on other viewpoints.

    I guess what I'm saying is just be careful you don't go from to , you would defeat part of what you were trying to accomplish.

    respectfully,

    RR
    But that's the same as saying DiD actually matters. Like people have to play it? Compelled, in order to validate their experience?

    And if it is that important, and it does validate their experience, won't toning it down negate or dilute the very validation for which they're striving?

    Classic Catch-22 methinks.

    As I've said before, I really do appreciate the time issue. But the time issue is also a corner-stone of the standard. Whazzing around at light-speed totally diminishes the entire gig. It's about as divorced from the intended experience as a divorce could be. There are many knock-on effects involved as well.

    Trust me, if you reach 17 hours, and those 17 hours took you only three or four hours of actual time, the satisfaction you thought you were going to feel will be very hollow in the final analysis. Some things truly have to be earned the hard way to hold any value. A career that consists of nothing but intense five or ten minute combats, with all the bits in-between conducted at warp-factor ten (Scotty), will count for nada.

    It's easier for some people to use the standard, harder for others, and for a few it's impossible (your examples being two of them). That's just life I'm afraid. Bringing the standard down to meet the needs of the hardest-pressed would render it a non-standard, and then nobody would think it worth the bother.

    Smokey, I believe "Normal" is considered "Realistic"?

  23. #123
    Rick Rawlings
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Siggi View Post

    As I've said before, I really do appreciate the time issue. But the time issue is also a corner-stone of the standard. Whazzing around at light-speed totally diminishes the entire gig. It's about as divorced from the intended experience as a divorce could be. There are many knock-on effects involved as well.

    Trust me, if you reach 17 hours, and those 17 hours took you only three or four hours of actual time, the satisfaction you thought you were going to feel will be very hollow in the final analysis. Some things truly have to be earned the hard way to hold any value. A career that consists of nothing but intense five or ten minute combats, with all the bits in-between conducted at warp-factor ten (Scotty), will count for nada.
    That's fine Siggi, I understand where you're coming from. I have tried missions both ways (with and without warping) and I don't just agree with your asessment in terms of my feelings.

    I don't really follow the whole non-warp point of view, anyway. The non-combat parts of OFF don't involve much in the way of skill. I presume everyone can take off and land and fly in gentle arcs, all day long if needed. I don't really agree with the fatigue argument, since you are sitting in a comfy chair in front of a screen using a joystick that in no way represents any of the physical strength needed to operate a real aircraft of the time. If people don't get tired sitting in front of a computer all day long for their jobs, well, no additonal skill needed. I will stipulate that your butt may get sore or your drink may grow empty. Couple that with the fact that the standard allows you to have the TAC on which alerts you to any and all aircraft that enter your zone and you would have to be almost willful to jumped outside of combat.

    Now, I can certainly understand that warp may take you, Siggi, and others out of the experience of imagining that you are flying the great war, and that is certainly a real position, but it seems much more like a matter of choice than anything else. From my point of view, the skill difference between a person who warps and a person who doesn't is a big zip.

    You mentioned that people may take more care when they fly in real time so as not to die and lose all the effort they have put into the character. While that may be true, all those reckless warpers will be rewarded by dying with much greater frequency. As I stated, since you will rarely, if ever, die outside of combat, I have no idea why anyone thinks it makes any difference for bragging rights or even just to share for fun...

    The only difference between warp and non-warp that might alter my perception of a pilot is the possiblility of getting killed by flack, which I am not sure is possible under warp conditions. However, it is rare enough even flying in real time that it would seem a strange thing to base a standard on though.

    I guess flying in real time doesn't indicate anything to me other than the pilot might be a bit masochistic

    The best way to show your skill is to post combat videos, which are always entertaining and have been of remarkably high quality on this site!

    But good luck to you and, as always, party on!

    RR

    As a final note, while I probably wouldn't mention DiD in my posts about my pilot anyway even if you changed the standard, but I did see that Mk2 had expressed interest and I do enjoy having reasonable discussions with people of different viewpoints, so thanks for the opportunity!

  24. #124

    Smokey and R Rawlings: I really am convinced...

    that the DiD standard is a very significant value to have as a method of standardizing what we do. It isn't easy, nor should it be. However, there is one very real application that EVERYONE can achieve. DON'T fly by it. I mostly meet it, but Warp, so, well, just not up to DiD. However, the power of the PC will let me create one DiD standard pilot, in each Aircraft, or Squad that I wish. the rest, well, I can fly how I want. All the setting's can be changed, only takes a minute. Seeing some of the other comments on gun settings's perhaps I'll try them. In P2, used to fly my DR1 with "tight" setting for M gun. Will continue to do so, for my non DiD pilots.

    Good points and all, and perhaps this is the route to an easy fix?

    Cheers,

    british_eh

Similar Threads

  1. FSX/P3D Native New Standard D 25 and D 27
    By Spad54 in forum FSX General Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: November 18th, 2013, 08:55
  2. USCG New Standard
    By burcham8 in forum FSX General Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: September 5th, 2012, 12:39
  3. New Standard...and Free
    By heywooood in forum FSX General Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: September 5th, 2010, 09:54
  4. FSX Standard and FSX Deluxe
    By leonross in forum FSX General Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: September 2nd, 2010, 13:52
  5. F1: No standard engine.
    By Ferry_vO in forum Racer's Paddock
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: November 13th, 2008, 18:10

Members who have read this thread: 0

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •